NFPA 13 8.15.1.2 (1-15)

[MDNCODES]

I have a Type 1 A building where we have Polypropylene piping above the ceiling(they currenly are not sprinkling above ceiling) and when you look at the 2012 CBC and CMC the piping is allowed in this type of building. CBC 717.5 exception 5 says go to mechanical code and plumbing code which only address the pipe if it were in a plenum (which we are not). So I end up looking in the NFPA 13 and really can't see where they don't allow this combustible piping above a non-sprinklered space. Maybe 8.15.1.2.10 where they talk about exposed surfaces(I would think they are talking about the construction) and imply the pipe is an exposed surface??

Anyway trying to find out how a combustible pipe can be in a Type 1 A building with no sprinklers above.

Thanks in advance

MDNCODES

 

[cdafd]

Will look tomorrow , but check maybe limited combustible or the concealed space section

Should not be a problem

What size and what is in the pipe

 

[cdafd]

Should have asked what edition of 13 are you using

 

[cdafd]

Concealed spaces that are constructed of noncombustible or limited combustible material are not required to be protected with automatic sprinklers, provided there is minimal combustible loading and no access to the space

http://www.nfpa.org/journaldetail.asp?categoryid=2318&itemid=53958&src=nfpajournal&cookie_test=1

 

[stookeyfpe]

Is CBC and CMC codes in California, Canada or Connecticut?

 

[MDNCODES]

It is the Califorina code. Looking at 2010 NFPA.

 

[cdafd]

What size and what is in the pipe ???????????


Not sure if you have two questions
1. what combustibles can be in a Type 1 A building??? I cannot answer that one

and/or

2. What does NFPA 13 say:::

this more then likely the answer:::



8.15.1.2* Concealed Spaces Not Requiring Sprinkler Protection.

8.15.1.2.1* Concealed spaces of noncombustible and limited-combustible construction with minimal combustible loading having no access shall not require sprinkler protection.




A.8.15.1.2.1 Minor quantities of combustible materials such as but not limited to: cabling, nonmetallic plumbing piping, non-structural wood, etc. can be present in concealed spaces constructed of limited or noncombustible materials but should not typically be viewed as requiring sprinklers (see 8.15.1.1). For example, it is not the intent of this section to require sprinklers, which would not otherwise be required, in the interstitial space of a typical office building solely due to the presence of the usual amount of cabling within the space. The threshold value at which sprinklers become necessary in the concealed space is not defined.


8.15.1.2.1.1 The space shall be considered a concealed space even with small openings such as those used as return air for a plenum.

8.15.1.2.2 Concealed spaces of noncombustible and limited-combustible construction with limited access and not permitting occupancy or storage of combustibles shall not require sprinkler protection.




3.3.13* Limited-Combustible (Material). Refers to a building construction material not complying with the definition of noncombustible material that, in the form in which it is used, has a potential heat value not exceeding 3500 Btu/lb (8141 kJ/kg), where tested in accordance with NFPA 259, Standard Test Method for Potential Heat of Building Materials, and includes either of the following: (1) materials having a structural base of noncombustible material, with a surfacing not exceeding a thickness of 1/8 in. (3.2 mm) that has a flame spread index not greater than 50; or (2) materials, in the form and thickness used, having neither a flame spread index greater than 25 nor evidence of continued progressive combustion, and of such composition that surfaces that would be exposed by cutting through the material on any plane would have neither a flame spread index greater than 25 nor evidence of continued progressive combustion, when tested in accordance with ASTM E 84, Standard Test Method of Surface Burning Characteristics of Building Materials, or ANSI/UL 723, Standard Test Method of Surface Burning Characteristics of Building Materials.

 

[MDNCODES]

I agree that 8.15.1.2.1 applies and that A.8.15.1.2.1 explains that non-metalic pipe is allowed. The issue I see is the threshold of combustibles that will require sprinklers is not defined and can cause interpretation issues.

The pipe is 4" Poly pro.

Thanks

 

[cdafd]

Missed this:::
"""" the 2012 CBC and CMC the piping is allowed in this type of building """""


Not a engineer type person but do you have any spec sheets on the pipe showing what it is made out of and will it burn, and if so burn charcteristics ???

"""materials, in the form and thickness used, having neither a flame spread index greater than 25 nor evidence of continued progressive combustion, and of such composition that surfaces that would be exposed by cutting through the material on any plane would have neither a flame spread index greater than 25 nor evidence of continued progressive combustion, """

what is in the pipe??? is it just one run or three or four or more grouped together??

I do not think you have a problem

how are you involved in all this???

 

[stookeyfpe]

You need to be discussing this issue with the building official. You referenced a requirement in the California Building Code.