NFPA conveyors or MHE 1

[controlsdude]

Is their a set of NFPA regulations that covers mainly conveyor systems or Material Handling Equipment?

 

[stookeyfpe]

What are you conveying? Baby diapers or explosives?

 

[controlsdude]

Lets see over the past 15 years its been pretty much anything that can come in a case. Except I do not think I have ever done anything explosive
examples of products or projects that I did
baby diapers
maxi pads
paper towels
cookie boxes
shipping distribution centers (dhl example)
tv shopping people
groceries
frozen chicken
smelly yeast

This is grouped into ASRS, sortation equipment, pallet and case conveyor. This is considered warehousing
Sometimes individual product not in cases , this is considered manufacturing environment.


Does this help?

Reason I am asking this is I have been told that NFPA 79 in particular does not apply to conveyor systems. So then I asked what NFPA # group does apply? Its was told to me that OSHA, JIC (these sets stopped in the 80's, and NEC only applies. What is your opinion? What makes you an expert?

 

[cdafd]

"What makes you an expert?"

I stayed at Holiday Inn last night.

It does not look like there is a specific nfpa standard just for conveyors.

Is there a specific problem you are trying to address????

Looks like there is an industry standard:

http://www.cemanet.org/publications/previews/Conveyor_Inst_Stdspv.pdf

 

[cdafd]

http://www.cemanet.org/

http://www.cemanet.org/publications/index.html

nfpa is not a catch all for everything

 

[controlsdude]

"I stayed at Holiday Inn last night."

I have too so I guess I should ask this question to myself. lol


Here is the particular instance of where I am having confusion.

NFPA 79 states
Quote: "7.3.2 Resetting. Resetting of the overload device shall not restart the motor."

They (safety committee) says that this does not apply since it comes out of industrial machines, not a conveyor standard.

But I have worked for other conveyor companies and when an overload popped, first investigate the overload problem, then reset the overload, then push a start/reset pushbutton. This would sound the horn and the conveyor section would turn back on. And every conveyor system that I was responsible for does this that I programmed at these other companies. It made sense to me then. Also other end user companies had this standard also.

Plus if your in the panel and you reset the overload, the contactor pulls in and it made me feel that much safer to hide behind a panel door and push the restart/reset without exposing myself to a possible blow out.

But then here at this company if an overload is tripped, resetting of the overload turns the motor back on. No horn is sounded, no start/reset pushbutton is pushed. Now this company has done this for years and I do not have a problem with it as long as they can show me a regulation where this comes from somewhere? Give me a quote thats all I wanted them to do!

So my question to you is can you produce this quote?

 

[cdafd]

Suggest you contact cemanet since it looks like they set standards for the industry to see if it is in thier standards or part of standard practice.

Alos, do not know if osha would have anything covering this.

 

[CanuckMiner]

The CEMA publication that cdafd indicated in his/her first post does not have information that will answer your question. It mainly discusses tolerances and alignment of stringers, pulleys, etc.

The 6th edition of CEMA's Belt Conveyor for Bulk Materials (I realize you're dealing with packaged materials) noted that "the most widely recognized and accepted safety standard for conveyors, ASME B20.1 Safety Standard for Conveyors and Related Equipment" It also recommends ASME Standard B15.1 "Safety Standard for Mechanical Power Transmission Apparatus". Another document mentioned is ANSI Z244.1 "Personnel Protection"

I have a copy of B20.1-2003. It states "5.11.2(b)(1)When a conveyor that would cause injury when started is automatically controlled or must be controlled from a remote location, an audible device or devices shall be provided that can be clearly heard at all hazardous points along the conveyor where personnel may be present..."

B20.1 does not specifically address how to restart the motor (i.e. reset button), but rather refers the reader to ANSI Z244.1 and OSHA Standard 29 CFR 1910.147.

B20.1 can be bought here for US$50 (2006 version noted, I have the 2003 version)...

http://store.asme.org/product.asp?c...ame=Conveyors&product_id=J0880T&cookie_test=1

So, the company's safety committee doesn't consider a conveyor as being an industrial machine? It sounds like you're up against the wall when the safety committee won't even consider enhancements to personnel safety such as you have seen elsewhere and are, presumably, proposing to reuse at this site.

Good Luck,
CanuckMiner

 

[stookeyfpe]

I learned more from Canuck Miner than I did from the original post. Lesson learned: properly pose the question.

 

[controlsdude]

OSHA Standard 29 CFR 1910.147.
This only refers if your working on the equipment to lock/tag it out properly

http://www.osha.gov/pls/oshaweb/owadisp.show_document?p_table=STANDARDS&p_id=9804

ANSI Z244.1
This also refers to lockout/tagout procedures

http://webstore.ansi.org/ansidocstore/product.asp?sku=ANSI+Z244.1-2003

So this above is something anyone would do to correct a problem on the conveyor. Local disconnects are always provided for this procedure.

The warning horn is sounded during startup of the conveyor that is always done. I have never been to a company that I have worked for that never did this one and never had them argue this point.

Like I said I do not like standing in front of an overload and then turn it back on with me standing in front of it. That is really my biggest concern.

This seems to me like a grey area within the code, if my company does not reconize the NFPA 79 code I referenced, because the procedure does not require any additional hardware just a software change to programming and a little bit of training.

 

[CanuckMiner]

jmounce,

Section 5.11.4 of B20.1 is ambiguous:
"Emergency Stops and Restarts. Conveyor controls shall be so arranged that, in case of emergency stop, manual reset or start at the location where the emergency stop was initiated shall be required for the conveyor(s) and associated equipment to resume operation."

It doesn't specifically say how to reset the conveyor, and that the motor restart needs to be a separate operation.

You might consider purchasing ASME B20.1 and using it to make your case. Since the safety committee is looking for a conveyor standard to cover this issue, its absence from the one standard that does address conveyor safety should cause you (and the safety committee) to look for an alternative standard that does address it. I am not familiar with NFPA 79, but fail to see how a conveyor would not be considered an industrial machine. Is there wording in NFPA 79 that excludes conveyors?

The procedure that you outlined as being in use at other plants sounds like a safer approach, and I'm really surprised that the SAFETY committee isn't backing it. It seems to me that you have provided documentation to support your position; have you asked them to provide documentation to support THEIR position?

Again, Good Luck with your battle.

Cheers,
CanuckMiner

 

[controlsdude]

I think my safety committee is coming to their senses. They went back on their past standards and saw the issue with starting the conveyor on a motor overload reset. Its in the old JIC from the 80's so they have no leg to stand on. You can follow it back in the NFPA 79 a few editions ago, but I have not got too many copies myself. Now its a matter of what they are liable for in the past systems.

As far as not restarting equipment on an estop we never did that one and I never did that one. That was never the issue. You always had to push the start button after the estop was pushed and reset.