No Embedment of Timber Pile in Pile Cap

[jerseyshore]

Was just sent a few photos of these pile caps pre-concrete pour. All but one is a single pile cap (the other is a poorly spaced double pile cap as you can see). These are placed along the front of a house supporting a 1st and 2nd floor deck. We're in a flood zone also.

Pretty obvious that not only is the rebar basically resting on the sand, but the piles have none inches of embedment into these caps.

The catch is that they already poured these and the building inspector is annoyed at the builder for pouring before they got inspected. He also wants the builder to rip them out because he didn't field treat the cut ends (which is never done, but is technically in the code [AWPA M4]). The architect who did the plans (and the crappy detail below) wants no part of this so they asked me if I can write the letter saying things are A-OK.

Thoughts here? There is very little load, but you gotta have some embedment right? Do I really take on the liability for this mess?

 

[TLHS]

On the plus side, the demolition will be super easy without embedment!

But yeah, I don't see why you'd take responsibility for this.

 

[LittleInch]

The bars are resting on some chairs though so would get some concrete underneath them so long as they vibrate it through.

Pretty crappy detail, but does look pretty much like the pictures. There is some embedment - just not a lot, just like the drawing.

Remember - More details = better answers
Also: If you get a response it's polite to respond to it.

 

[phamENG]

Don't do it. Contractor messed up both in the construction and management of inspection time-line. Not your problem and taking it does a disservice to our profession.

The more contractors that learn our stamps are NOT just contractor get out of jail free cards the better.

 

[phamENG]

Oh - did you design it? Or was that an architect's detail?

 

[Once20036]

Like the others, I think that the next steps for you depend on your role on the project.
Are you an un-involved third party who was called to clear up the mess? No chance I'd step into this one.

If I was the contractor, I`d argue that the detail doesn't require any embedment and doesn't locate the rebar, and therefore the as built construction complies with the detail.
Sure they didn't call for an inspection, but I think the photos clearly show what was built. What additional information would the inspector have reviewed?

 

[phamENG]

Regardless of my roll in the project, I would not write a letter saying it's okay if I would not have had to do the inspection and approve the construction in a normal sequence of events. In other words, if the AHJ is the sole inspector on the project (common for houses around here), then I would not give them a letter. I have just as much information as the inspector. If he feels he can't do his job with the information at hand, why can I do his job with the information at hand? I can't. I don't have X-ray vision. I can't go to the site and gather additional data. If it's insufficient for the inspector to approve it, it's insufficient for me to approve it.

 

[MotorCity]

Was this the only detail given to show the connection (or lack of) between the pile and the pile cap?

There is no dimension given for the pile embedment into the pile cap, but if its drawn to scale, the embedment looks negligible at best. Maybe an inch or two of embedment is shown at most. Without any mechanical connection, and relying on an inch or two of embedment, to me its the same as no embedment. This detail does not appear capable of transferring any meaningful shear, moment, or uplift resistance. If that is indeed the case, then its probably fine as constructed.

 

[jerseyshore]

Yes it is the architect's detail. My pile cap detail is nicely detailed with dimensions and such, but this is a somewhat typical architect-drawing-structure detail that we've all seen too many times.

Just spoke with the contractor and he made a similar comment "I did what was on the architect's drawing, it's sitting on top of the pile...". This is what happens when you get a builder who doesn't normally build houses on piles.

I was out at the house to look at a totally separate part of the roof as a third-party, when I got they "hey can you write a letter please thanks" as I'm going to my car.

I told the contractor flat out that there is no way I'm signing off on these things. And as TLHS said they'll be easy to remove.

Thanks all. I don't mind signing off on things that I designed, but this is why we have inspections. This building official is part-time so they didn't want to have to wait to pour I guess.

On a side note I got a totally separate, but similar call 2 days ago. I designed a 6" structural slab at grade level for a drive-thru ATM. Poured before inspection of course. Contractor has no photos of the install, not even any from the bank surveillance cameras, no record of rebar on the site, and I even had them scan the slab. Nada. But SWEARS he put in the rebar. Sure ya did...

 

[dik]

Can you drill into the pile and PT and use a HDG rebar 'dowel' into it? What loads are on the cap?

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

 

[jerseyshore]

Just was back out at the house and guess what, they poured them at the wrong elevation anyway.

As you can see from the photos they are nearly the entire 12" above the current grade. Which also happens to be just about what the finish grade is going to be as well.

So we don't really have a pile cap and it's hardly a footing since it's just sitting on top of the ground.

They are going to take them out and lower them down to the correct elevation with the proper embedment.

The real reason I went out to this house was because they botched the ridge height by 9"! The town will give no variances for max height so I'm working on a detail to cut the roof down and save what we can of the rafters.

These guys really did a number on this one.

 

[phamENG]

Hold on...you need new foundations but the ridge is already in place? Yikes. No way I'd touch this one with a ten foot pole.

 

[WinelandV]

Pretty sure these caps are for supporting a 2-story deck.

Please note that is a "v" (as in Violin) not a "y".

 

[jerseyshore]

The house is elevated on timber piles. The pile caps in the OP are just the 4' front porch supports. It's pretty typical around here to cut off the piles at grade with caps and put 4x4 or 6x6 PT posts on top for decks and porches.

 

[phamENG]

Oh...okay. I feel a little better about it, then. Sorry...