nozzzles on a surge drum 1

[kagadpencil]

as you will know from my question, I am rookie. I am reading a drawing of a surge drum on some processing plant. The drawing mentions a lot of nozzles and manways etc. I am trying to find the total weight of the total installation. Where can I find (ASME standards? appendices?) information about this stuff? I have online subscription to ASME section VIII division 1, but I am frustrated with browsing around in the different referred documents and not finding what I am lookning for.

Can you guys recommend me some very basic reading on this topic?

 

[metengr]

Two recommendations;
1. Regarding the weight of the component, I would probably contact the manufacturer of the component directly to obtain this information. You can attempt to calculate the weight but this could be time consuming because it would require actual dimensions, known geometry and material specification data. There may be some fabrication/erection drawings at your facility that are laying around or archived that could contain this information, as well.

2. Regarding general information on ASME Section VIII, Div 1 components, I would recommend the following web site-

http://www.casti.ca/

The CASTI reference books provide good background information for various ASME Boiler and Pressure Vessel Code sections.

If you will be dealing with the ASME B&PV code as part of your job description, I would highly recommend attending one of the seminars provided by ASME on Section VIII, Div 1 design.

 

[codeeng]

Firstly, you won't find anything in the Code about weights. If you don't have any design software available then you can do it the old fashion way. For carbon steel plates (shell, heads, supports etc) you can use a steel density of 490 lb/ft3 (7850 kg/m3). Stainless steel is a little higher @ 500 lb/ft3. For pipe, fittings and flanges there are a variety of supplier catalogues available that give weights.

 

[jte]

kagadpencil-

Don't forget to provide some background info about yourself in the "Personal Profile" section in the top left of the screen. You can see mine by clicking on the "jte" at the top of this post.

When I was doing vessel weight estimating I used charts which had been developed which included the weight of a WN flange + a bit of nozzle neck. You'll find that the nozzles will generally account for less than 10% of the vessel weight. The vessels I worked on generally had total nozzle weights which ranged from 300# to 3000#. It's the large diameter flanges which wind up governing the weight. Especially if they are manways with blinds. The blinds weight a lot.

As codeeng mentioned, you can do it the old fashioned way: Figure out the volume and multiply by density (I found that using 0.283#/in^3 for CS is a more useful set of units). Develop your own charts by determining the weight per inch of nozzle neck, say Sch 80 pipe, and add the flange weight. A Google search on "flange +weight" will result in some good hits. The first one I got was

http://www.thermometricscorp.com/flan150weig.html

which seems to have a decent chart for the weight of flanges.

jt

 

[kagadpencil]

thank you all for your notes. All of them were very useful. As you know, I am just getting started. I am currently reviewing some design calcs for a vacuum tower. As I go through the document, I dont understand 10% of the things - Which makes it a little frustrating. What are some of the references that a rookie in pressure vessel calculations should have in his cubicle? Are there any good online glossaries, reference material?

question: I dont know what MDMT means.

 

[jte]

kagadpencil-

A rookie reviewing design calc's for a vacuum tower? What you need is a mentor! But going through someone elses design is probably the best way for you to get exposed. What you need in your cubicle will depend a bit more on what your role in the organization is (filling out your profile would help!).

I used to work at an E&C firm in the PV group and now work at an oil refinery. Along with three other engineers, I work on the maintenance side of static equipment issues. What I keep on my bulletin board includes (in no particular order): A page out of the process design spec for our plant which lists the process and mechanical design pressures and temperatures of our steam and water systems; A table (multiple pages from my former employer's piping design guide) listing pipe thicknesses, inside diameter, weight per foot, moment of inertia, section modulus, etc.; A table (single page) listing pipe thicknesses; A table (from TEMA) listing the modulus of elasticity, thermal expansion coefficients, and conductivity for various metals; a G&W Taylor Forge sheet with dimensions of welding fittings; A risk matrix (risk = probability x consequence) which helps categorize issues for prioritizing repair work; a paragliding (well, and hang gliding also) calender; and various other crud.

What I keep within arm's reach includes (again in no particular order): B31.3; VIII-1; VIII-2 (out of habit, not need); Misc. other ASME codes (three editions of B16.5, B16.9, B16.34, B16.10, B16.47, B30.20); II-D (and parts of II-A); API-579; NBIC; AISC Manual of Steel Construction, ASD, 9th ed.; Roark's Formulas for Stress and Strain by Young; and various other crud.

Lots of other material that I've gathered over the years resides a bit farther away.

jt

 

[JoeTank]

MDMT = Minimum Design Metal Temperature.

MDMT is considered when material selection is being made and one needs to determine if impact testing is required. This is covered in ASME VIII, UG-84 and UCS-66.

Steve Braune
Tank Industry Consultants

http://www.tankindustry.com

 

[kagadpencil]

thank you.
JT: you are the best.
I will now dig in and try to get my hands on all this stuff. I do have a good mentor, but as you can imagine he is busy

 

[khardy]

1. For plate you may find it easier to calculate weight by remembering that 1/4" plate weighs 10.2#/ft^2 plate. Then you just have to multiply by the area of the plate and a ratio for the thickness. For example, an 8' x 20' sheet of 3/8" plate weighs 8-ft*20-ft*10.2-#/ft^2*(.375"/.25")=2,448#. Weights of beams, flanges, pipe, etc.. can be found in tables.

2. If you work with vessles, piping, or tanks i would highly recomend "pressure vessle handbook" by Eugene F. Megyesy, (pressure vessle publishing.) It has weights of pipe, fittings, flanges, standard valves, and even bolts and nuts. It has approximate sqft of heads. And it has excellent summary of the ASME code for pressure vessles.

 

[GenB]

Do not forget the weight of the weld filling.
You need a lot to learn, one thing, most of it is in the Codes please dig out or dig in as you wish.
I learned the hard way too and a lot of times is in front of your eyes and you just can not see it.
But also you are in the right direction"ask"
Good luck

ER