Nutsert Part number!

[var10]

Hi,

I am looking for a mil-spec nutsert. I barely get any results through google if i search for nutsert. So are there even any ms or nas part number insertnuts or nutserts to begin with?

I can easily find a metric nutsert, just thought I would try mil-std first because of the industry i work in.

Any help is much appreciated.

Thanks,

Varoon

 

[berkshire]

Nut-serts are not popular on aircraft because the tail will often drop out if there is no screw in the unit and it has not been fully seated.

This term has often been used generically for a threaded pull fastener. There are several catalogs that refer to nut -serts when they mean other fasteners such as:
Rivnut originally B.F. Goodrich now made by others. one piece aluminum .
Thinsert one piece plated steel
Nutsert one piece fastener that breaks into two parts upon installation.

B.E.



You are judged not by what you know, but by what you can do.

 

[WKTaylor]

I have never heard the term "nutserts". This sounds like a old generation nickname or product name long obsolete.

Are You talking about...

Threaded inserts [for open or blind holes] or helical coil-thread-like inserts?

Blind Nuts?

Threaded-inserts for panels [bonded-in]?

Any picture or Ref data on what you need so we can get a clue card?

Regards, Wil Taylor

Trust - But Verify!

We believe to be true what we prefer to be true.

For those who believe, no proof is required; for those who cannot believe, no proof is possible.

Unfortunately, in science what You 'believe' is irrelevant – "Orion"

 

[berkshire]

actually Will it's the other way round, the term Nut- sert is getting used instead of Rivnut in general industry, like Hoover replaced Vacuum Cleaner
As a generic term .
You of course are very familiar with the original Rivnut as described below It has spawned several similar ideas such as the Hex nut, Plus nut and of course the Nut-sert


TUBULAR RIVET

2,149,199 UNITED STATES PATENT OFFICE

"Rivnut® – The Original blind installed internally threaded rivet, was invented (patent #2,149,199) in 1936 for the purpose of attaching a rubber aircraft wing de-icer extrusion to the leading edge of the wing. The Rivnut® riveted the aluminum wing skin to the inner aluminum spar and then accepted a mating screw to attach the rubber de-icer.

The Rivnut® fastener was given a military specification of MS27130 and an aerospace standard of NAS1329 and NAS1330. Use of the Rivnut® expanded within the military and aerospace markets, army rivnuts, and soon became popular in general industry because of its many design and assembly advantages."


You are judged not by what you know, but by what you can do.

 

[WKTaylor]

Berkshire...

Still not convinced. What You describe are clearly blind nuts.

MOST of what You have described fall in the catagory of the RivNut [brand name] and are considered non-structural... to be used for low-stress attachment to low stress parts in secondary structure.

A few BNs I would consider "structural" are as follows.

NAS1731 NUT, BLIND, SERRATED HEAD, SELF-LOCKING, 450 °F
NAS1732 NUT, BLIND, SERRATED HEAD, SELF-LOCKING, CLOSED END, 450 °F
[NAS1733 NUT, BLIND, SERRATED HEAD, SELF-LOCKING, INSTALLATION DATA FOR]

And for giggles... elliptical Head BNs...
NAS1734 NUT, SELF-LOCKING, BLIND RIVET, ELLIPTICAL HEAD, 450 °
NAS1735 NUT, SELF-LOCKING, BLIND RIVET, ELLIPTICAL HEAD, CLOSED END, 450 °F
[NAS1736 NUT, SELF-LOCKING, BLIND RIVET, ELLIPTICAL HEAD, INSTALLATION DATA FOR]

Hi-Shear [now LISI] BN Blind Nuts


Regards, Wil Taylor

Trust - But Verify!

We believe to be true what we prefer to be true.

For those who believe, no proof is required; for those who cannot believe, no proof is possible.

Unfortunately, in science what You 'believe' is irrelevant – "Orion"

 

[WKTaylor]

Oh Yeah... Var10, Berkshire...

I almost forgot the no-sh*t latest FTI CX-in-place Blind Nut TUKLOC

http://www.fatiguetech.com/fasteners_tukloc.htm

... pretty impressive! I sorta assume these are now in-use on latest genersation F-16s in-lieu of the elliptical blind nuts.

Regards, Wil Taylor

Trust - But Verify!

We believe to be true what we prefer to be true.

For those who believe, no proof is required; for those who cannot believe, no proof is possible.

Unfortunately, in science what You 'believe' is irrelevant – "Orion"

 

[berkshire]

As you say Will.
The Nutsert is a blind nut.
I do not personally like them, because as they install, the inner core separates from the outer ,then swages itself up inside.
If they are not drawn up tight, ( i.e. properly installed.), then when you remove the bolt or screw for servicing a part, the inner collar can and will drop out of them , ( Ask me how I know.), you are then chasing around a blind cavity for FOD.

Maybe I am prejudiced , but of all of the blind nut fastener systems, this is my least favorite.


You are judged not by what you know, but by what you can do.

 

[WKTaylor]

Berkshire... take a look at the FTI Tukloc system... blind-nuts on steroids.

Regards, Wil Taylor

Trust - But Verify!

We believe to be true what we prefer to be true.

For those who believe, no proof is required; for those who cannot believe, no proof is possible.

Unfortunately, in science what You 'believe' is irrelevant – "Orion"

 

[berkshire]

Will,
I did, it looks like they solve a major problem with blindnut systems. In that the installation tool keeps the threaded portion in the middle as the part is drawn. With some of the systems if the tool is not held perfectly, the bulb does not form evenly, and the thread gets a little off center, making it difficult to place the screw.
Very definitely an improvement.
B.E.

You are judged not by what you know, but by what you can do.

 

[var10]

My understanding is that nutsert is a generic term used in sheetmetal industry. It does not specify if it is blind or thru. They can be both. Refer to image. They are also called insert nuts. From what will has posted looks like they are also called in rivnuts in aerospace industry (I am very new to this area).

They are only one piece with insides C/bored & threaded. I think it is very similar to what berkshire shared in one of his first posts, threaded insert fasteners. I can see the obvious of these nuts not being used in critical areas of aerospace industries. There are often complaints on them due to their tendency to fall off!

Berkshire "Nutsert one piece fastener that breaks into two parts upon installation." - I am not aware of this, can you please give me more explanation on this please.

For this specific application I can say it is safe to use them and thats why I need a military part number as they still have to get thru aviation standards.

The NAS series have a serated head. I don't need serated. Are there any normal heads.

 

[berkshire]

VAR 10,
The NUTSERT is a particular brand of pull type threaded insert. Look at the attachment from Aircraft Spruce and Specialty in my response to Will Taylor 4 posts ago. If you do not need a pull type fastener then you can look at Pem-sert or Rosan Press nuts

The Nutsert fitting looks like a Rivnut, and it is pulled with the same kind of tool, but there the similarity ends.

The Rivnut, Thinsert, and Hexnut, Tukloc, (Brand names for threaded insert fasteners), all work by forming a bulb on the underside of the metal the fastener is being placed in, as shown in your own attachment.
The Nutsert has a break flange machined in approximately halfway up the part with a tapered cone below it.
When you pull the part, the flange breaks, and allows the lower tapered cone to swage itself into the outer part of the collar. The inner part is then drawn up, expanding the outer sleeve into the hole in the sheet metal part. Installed properly the part then behaves as a solid threaded insert.

Insufficient pulling force or travel distance does not complete the swaging operation, allowing the threaded portion to drop or be forced out during removal and replacement of the bolt or screw, as would be done in servicing a hatch or cover. Agreed the same insufficient force or travel distance can cause a Rivnut to be loose and spin, but you do not lose the fastener.

As I have said earlier the term Nutsert is now becoming generic in the sheet metal industry in the same manner that Hoover replaced Vacuum cleaner by clever marketing, and what you are referring to as a Nutsert may in fact not be a Nutsert at all.
B.E.


You are judged not by what you know, but by what you can do.

 

[WKTaylor]

RE the nutsert in the AS & SC catalog...

Berkshire, all.

What delineates an aircraft part from a pseudo/wannabe-aircraft part is that aircraft parts have clearly defined technical design data that defines strength, dimensions, installation practices, materials/finishes, etc; and have clearly been tested for use in our business.

I challange all of You to find authoritative design data for these "Nutsert parts" that You would trust in design [not homebuilt "good-enough" windage design]... and take to a DER for certification.

Regards, Wil Taylor

Trust - But Verify!

We believe to be true what we prefer to be true.

For those who believe, no proof is required; for those who cannot believe, no proof is possible.

Unfortunately, in science what You 'believe' is irrelevant – "Orion"

 

[berkshire]

Will,
I think I have already beaten to death, the fact that I don't like them,
and I for one would not put one on an aircraft given any other choice.
I have used these things in the general sheet metal industry, which is where I found out about their bad habits. Mostly on electronic enclosures
In spite of the fact that the biggest experimental aircraft supplier sells them, it still is not an item I would trust on an aircraft.
B.E.

You are judged not by what you know, but by what you can do.