NX CAM

[Chuck158]

I am a Manufacturing Engineer for a mid-size Job shop (>100 employees) that machines everything from small aluminum parts to large castings (>50 tons). We are currently looking to change CAM software from GibbsCAM to NX. I was wondering what we can expect to see from NX as far as performance with complex parts? How about easier parts? We are seeing more parts that were designed for casting that need to be machined from solid for prototyping. GibbsCAM is consistently failing in the tougher parts and advanced support is no help. How is NX tech-support for machining? How is NX for 5-axis simultaneous machining in real-world situations? We have had a demo already but I would like to get some input from people on this forum.

Thank you for your input.

-Chuck

 

[rg006]

Congrats on the switch,
As far as simple 3-axis machining, NX is a waste. But since you are doing 5-axis, you hit the jackpot. I think NX is great. We are using NX4 now but the options for CAM are pretty much endless. I do have to say that the most enjoyable part is that you can generate an operation using simple lines (outlining the endmill OD and length, etc.) and just run through a program real quick or you can generate the operation using a full 3D representation of the tool and actually take measurements to see how much clearance you have between the holder and workpiece, etc. As far as support goes, they can answer any question regarding functions in UG, however, if you are into programing your own postprocessor, you better buy a book or take a class. NX uses its own PostBuilder software, I suggest you get it if you ever plan on changing or creating a new program. Its easy, and Im an idiot. I learned to use it and switch over our lathe postprocessor to output to a new lathe all in maybe two weeks. The 5-axis milling is a good bit more complicated and requires good understanding of TCL code, but with a book or class I think it would be no problem. Writing your own 3-axis stuff would be pretty easy. If you are not into tcl programing you can still generate cls files and use c+ or something. Maybe even grip could be used, but NX support no longer provides help with grip programs. Its pretty open ended so you can make a very simple post or output some complicated variable input posts where the mill operator can make some decisions at the mill. I know one friend that out puts all the mill programs into one big file and the mill operator will simply enter a 1,2 or 3, to select side 1, side 2, or mill bolt holes only. Great all around software.
Hope this helps,
Rick

 

[wmalan]

"I am a Manufacturing Engineer for a mid-size Job shop (>100 employees) that machines everything from small aluminum parts to large castings (>50 tons). We are currently looking to change CAM software from GibbsCAM to NX. I was wondering what we can expect to see from NX as far as performance with complex parts?"

I'm a long time UG cam programmer (since v13). You'll be very happy with the performance increase on complex parts. Get a decent Nvidia graphics card for sure.

"How about easier parts?"

With NX5 thru 6, the interface and steps to create programs have been simpified. In addition you can customize NX to do similar families or types of parts. Having an assembly based system really speeds things up, even on "easy" parts.

"We are seeing more parts that were designed for casting that need to be machined from solid for prototyping."

NX's Cavity Mill is a far superior method compared to Gibbs for the roughing of parts from solid. And in the cases where you do have a forging or casting to rough from, CM works even better there as far as efficient roughing paths without a lot of air cutting.

"GibbsCAM is consistently failing in the tougher parts and advanced support is no help. How is NX tech-support for machining?"

The support is excellent either through GTAC (NX support) as well as the BBS they host as well. Often times if you have a big problem, you can send the file and they will get back to you the next day.

"How is NX for 5-axis simultaneous machining in real-world situations? We have had a demo already but I would like to get some input from people on this forum."

Second to none. The tool axis control is amazing. If you have doubts, ask them to look at one of your real world parts to demo. I've used it for all types of airframe work as well as turbo machinery. One of the most powerful tools is Variable Axis Contour / Streamline using Interpolate Tool Axis. It allows you to contour a complex group of surfaces while setting various tool axis positions at different areas.

--
Bill

--
Bill

 

[joycejo]

I have been using NX for a long, long time, since 1984, and have yet to find a machine it cannot handle. As far as simple tasks you can create templates to make the process go much faster. You can customize the Feed and Speed tables so eventually you will never need to set them again.

Siemens can sell you a machine Kit that includes the post and the machine model for simulation. I don’t know what they charge but it is cheaper than a crash.

The learning curve is steep. Make sure you insist on training especially if you are going to write your own posts.

I heartily agree with the other comments here. The real key is you can customize the software and make you job easier. This allows you to focus on getting the process right and keeping the machines running.

“If you not making chips then you not making money”


John Joyce
Tata Technologies
1675 Larimer St.
Denver, CO

http://www.myigetit.com

NX5,6 Solid Works, Solid Edge

 

[Chuck158]

Thank you for all your replies. It always helps to hear it from people that are using it everyday.
With the posts that we need, we are looking to start out with a few of the machine toolkits, and the rest of our advanced posts Siemens will be writing until I can take a class on post builder. For training we are looking into attending the Siemens taught classes; Are they worth the cost? The classes seem really expensive since they don’t teach them locally.

Has anybody has experienced any issues with working with large (+60mb file) complex models over a (>100mb) network? We have lost days of work in past with GibbsCAM working over a network. I believe our computers should be fast enough to handle NX; HP Z400 workstations with Xeon Quad Core 2.66 processors, and FX1800 graphics cards?

Thank you again for your input.

-Chuck

 

[looslib]

Well, as for training, the Siemens classes are good and so are the Tata/igetit classes. Both companies hae some very good people who have used the software in the trenches and now teach. (JJ, mail me the reference check later - lol)

You listed part of your hardware, but not the critical parts! What is the OS, 32 or 63 bit, and how much memory is in the machines?
The 1800 is a high-mid range card and very good, but without memory for those large files you will chock NX.



"Wildfires are dangerous, hard to control, and economically catastrophic."

Ben Loosli

 

[Chuck158]

The OS is Windows XP 32bit with 4GB of RAM. I hope to upgrade soon to Windows 7 64Bit, once all the bugs are worked out of windows. How much of a performance jump is it going to 64Bit windows versus 32 bit?

Thanks.

-Chuck

 

[uguser3]

Chuck,
Your company sounds like ours, Small in UG's eyes.Our support hasnt been the greatest.I started using UGII version 6 ,other guys here started at UgII 4 (AROUND 1988)
we are now running NX6 & NX7, so we have seen alot of changes.Some Good, some not so good
UG modeling and assemblies works well but Cam is not their strong point.I'm Not a mastercam fan but they are kicking UG's butt here everyday.We purchased two post processors from mastercam for a 5axis machine and a 4 axis machine. Both posts worked flawlessly.We only purchased one from Seimens and it has been a year long train wreck.Hopefully you will have better luck with that.

 

[markrief]

"Cam is not their strong point. I'm Not a mastercam fan but they are kicking UG's butt here everyday"

Are you basing this opinion on your experience with the single post? If not, can you be more specific about this? Where do you think NX is behind MC?
Thanks

Mark Rief
Product Manager
Siemens PLM

 

[uguser3]

Hey Mark,

I'm been a Ug programmer for past 18yrs .I can tell you here in a real shop that the guys using mastercam are getting their programs out to the machines faster and with less keystrokes than us guys using UG.That sure doesnt sit well with management especially with all the maintenance cost UG.I laughed when they got MC but it's not funny anymore.we had the old style UG licensing where everything was ala carte an so we didnt have the tool path visualization. That really would grind us UG guys that mastercam guys could see there toolpaths cut material.
We upgraded our license to mach3 license so atleast we caught up on that, ofcourse there was a hefty charge.

 

[Chuck158]

Luckily we have a lot of Mazak's and one of our customers is using UG to program Mazak's as well, and they have offered to share their posts and knowledge with us. Also, I know Mazak Kentucky uses UG for the advanced demonstrations and programming.

I haven't had good experiences with GibbsCAM post development either, and always wrote my own posts. At least Siemens gives users Postbuilder, we had to pay an additional $3,000 for the crappy little Gibbs post compiler. I have a little more confidence in Siemens & post builder.

We would never consider MasterCAM. That is a parallel jump. They actually use the same 5-axis software (moduleworks) as GibbsCAM. We even tried it out for a month and didn't get good results. The graphics showed one set of toolpath, the Machine Sim showed another, the posted code showed something completely opposite. Then support couldn't answer me why. Yet the same part was programmed in NX, and ran ok. And supposedly will be even easier to program in future releases. That is what had us leaning towards Delcam Powermill or NX, but Powermill doesn’t do turning, so we are now leaning heavily towards NX. It’s just A LOT bigger cost then GibbsCAM, but at least it checks the g-code and not just it’s own graphics.

-Chuck

 

[looslib]

There is NO performance jump from 32 to 64 on the OS side, unless you are using the pagefile to hold your part information in memory.

Windows 32 can only allocate 2GB of memory to an application while 64 is virtually unlimitd.

You may want to double your memory when you go to a 64bit OS.


UG/NX CAM may be the cadaliac of the industry, but you get all the bells and whistles with it. Having used it since V3 in 1987, it does take some getting used to and maybe even some customization of the settings to get full advanatage of the package. The one thing to remember with NX is that you have a full database of your model, drawing and manufacturing files available in their native mode at all times. It may not always produce the shortest cycle time in the least amount of time, but it has a lot of methods to optimize the resukts to get what you need.



"Wildfires are dangerous, hard to control, and economically catastrophic."

Ben Loosli