On the way out....How Do you Do it 1

[bigmig]

so I want to quit my job and go out on my own because my boss is a (insert adjective here). I won't type the sob story here.

The jobs I have access to (giving proposals on) I only know about because of where I work. Half of which I brought in.

How ethical is it to tell my boss "up yours" and then call up client A to Z and say "by the way, I'm on my own and here is my proposal"?

 

[casseopeia]

new here?

"Gorgeous hair is the best revenge." Ivana Trump

 

[MikeHalloran]

>>>How ethical is it to tell my boss "up yours" and then call up client A to Z and say "by the way, I'm on my own and here is my proposal"? <<<

Telling your boss "up yours" is ethical, but impolite.
Poaching clients, even if you brought them in, is not ethical.



Mike Halloran
Pembroke Pines, FL, USA

 

[msquared48]

Two things here:

1. Overtly or covertly taking the clients of another firm is unethical. Just get your own. It takes time and work, but it is worth it.

2. Don't burn your bridges with your boss. It WILL come back to bite you in your pocketbook, and your reputation. Be adult about it and just leave quietly.

Mike McCann
MMC Engineering

http://mmcengineering.tripod.com

 

[moon161]

Once I listened to some bad advice, made a huge pest of myself, calling back way too many times after an interview, bugged the engineers and such. I knew the direct of HR at the place, and since then he's moved to one top shelf employer or another around here. There a few strategically placed people in the area that no doubt bin my resume the moment they see it and think " hey wait, didn't he..?"

Not the end of the world, but the bad things you do for yourself can outlive the brief satisfaction that follows.

 

[moon161]

On the other end, I've had people who showed me the door speak up for me at reference time. You never can tell.

 

[ctopher]

When you grow up and gain more experience, you'll learn that "up yours" is an immature act and could guide you into the wrong path of your career.
The "new company" may ask why are you "on your own" now. Be prepared for an honest answer.

Chris
SolidWorks 11
ctopher's home
SolidWorks Legion

 

[berkshire]

Never ever burn bridges!!
B.E.

The good engineer does not need to memorize every formula; he just needs to know where he can find them when he needs them. Old professor

 

[peppinu]

I have been in my current job for a good 20 years and have seen many people leave and come again.
My philosophy is to leave with dignity. You may never know what will happen in the future. If things go bad you may want to return. Is your boss and employee as you are or is he the owner?

I fully agree with Mike about taking clients of another firm. We are owned by an American company and we have to sign a code of business conduct amongst which, it says

"All non-public information about the Company should be considered confidential
information"


Joe Borg

 

[ScottyUK]

Resist the temptation. Paths do cross again and you don't want to find yourself in a new company working for the same guy in future after you tell him to ram his job. And don't forget they might recruit him after they recruit you, so you could be taken by surprise.


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If we learn from our mistakes I'm getting a great education!

 

[jmw]

Yes, it is a smaller world than you think. You move to caompany B because there are skills/job/market similarities and sooner or later company A acquires company B or company C acquires both....

I agree that the short term satisfaction isn't worth it.



JMW

http://www.ViscoAnalyser.com

 

[TheTick]

If you call the clients or use other privileged information, you are in the wrong.

 

[cvg]

going to the phone book and calling up every architect, contractor or business in town to market your services is not un-ethical. Anybody else could do the same thing.

Saying that you can do it cheaper than your boss, might be crossing a line.

Using confidential information taken from your last employer such as labor and overhead rates, billing rates, client lists, proprietary information or perhaps poaching their employees to work for you etc. certainly is not ethical.

Some employment contracts have non-compete clauses, you should read yours.

http://www.eng-tips.com/viewthread.cfm?qid=178664

http://www.eng-tips.com/viewthread.cfm?qid=296739

 

[ewh]

As jmw points out, it really is a small world.
I've crossed paths many times with past collegues years and thousands of miles from where I last worked with them, and it is typically a pleasant experience. Usually I give management deservedly positive comments regarding their capabilities, and have been occasionally directly responsible for their being brought on board.
On the other hand, I have also prevented a few from being hired when their resumes came across my desk for comment, due to my previous experiences with them, again years and thousands of miles from where I had last worked with them.
So, as cliche as it may seem, what goes around does come around and the fewer professional bridges you burn can be considered an investment in your future. Definitely not worth the fleeting satisfaction of telling them to "take this job and shove it", as tempting as that may be.

Technically, the glass is always full.

 

[bridgebuster]

No need to tell the boss "up yours" he probably knows what you're thinking.

As far as "stealing" clients if you didn't sign any non-competition agreement with your employer in this regard it's ethical provided you're not using any confidential or proprietary information developed by your employer. Financial advisers and advertising executives, to name a few, take clients with them when the change firms.

 

[zdas04]

A good friend of mine was really upset at a project that he and I were assigned to. It was a really stupid project that our boss thought would change the direction of the company (it didn't). My friend finally had enough and decided to quit. He showed me his resignation letter and I was shocked. Basically he said "I've decided to leave to pursue other opportunities". No mention of the horrible deadlines or the fact that everyone on the project felt like they were his only boss. I asked him about it and his response was perfect "I get no benefit from making life better for you, suck it up".

A few years later I ran into him in the halls and he's now a consultant for the old company and quite happy. His comment was "see, burning bridges is just not an adult thing to do". I learned from that experience that the better terms you leave on the better off you are.

As to what you can take with you, the answer is basically nothing. No client lists/contact info. No confidential proposals. No proprietary techniques. You didn't pay for any of those things and taking them is stealing.

David

 

[ScottyUK]

Did they pay for the contact list? In my industry most are ultimately trying to sell stuff to me. I'll be taking my contact list with me, I need to know who to speak to about stuff. If you're a salesman then the situation is different.


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If we learn from our mistakes I'm getting a great education!

 

[patprimmer]

Here, legally generally you are allowed to take what you remember. You are not allowed to take documents, but you do not have to have your brain washed.

Certain information as mentioned in some previous posts even if not written is still a no go. Some areas are definitely various shades of grey and as David says, different greys look different to different people.

Also there are 3 sides to this. You ex employers rights and ownership, your rights and ownership and the customers rights to choose suppliers and even ownership of what they may have already paid for.

Regards
Pat
See FAQ731-376 for tips on use of eng-tips by professional engineers &

http://eng-tips.com/market.cfm

for site rules

 

[bigTomHanks]

If you work for a smaller company that really is dysfunctional then do what you wish as long as its not illegal. Don't worry about feels because they will probably bad mouth you when you are gone anyway but I wouldn't recommend telling them what you think. Take a professional approach and when they close their doors because you are taking all their good business that will be your satisfaction. If that never happens one day you may be working together so you want that to be civil.

 

[brandonbw]

Don't burn bridges. And do not poach clients. There is a good chance you will run into someone again. A very good chance.

I started my my own company a few years ago in the same manner of being fed up, and everyone knows everyone in one way or another. I can't believe it sometimes.

B+W Engineering and Design
Los Angeles Civil Engineer and Structural Engineer

http://bwengr.com