OpenGL- AND game-card in one system (?) 1

[pietje]

I am preparing to build a new system for home use.
I would like to be able to run SW on this new system for the sporadic days that I am fed up with the office ) , but I also want to play the occasional 3D shooter to for example get rid of all my frustrations after one of those less successful SW sessions (due to myself or SW).

I have done a little research on OpenGL and SW...

The problem is that the OpenGL cards are not really up to the 3D game task (except when you buy a really expensive one, has anyone got experience with gaming on a OpenGL card btw??), and the game cards aren't really fit for SW.

I have spoken to and read stories from several people who use SW with a conventional game card and not even really high-performance models; the only difference I can see with my quadro fx560 at work is that the realtime views look a little bit less slick. And sometimes SW puts itself in software OpenGL mode, which is disastrous for performance.

When you use a high-performance game card, can you expect an exceptable performance from SW?? I don't really mind the realtime viewing being less slick, but find it important that SW doesn't slow down significantly or craps up the views. And what to do to override/prevent SW using software opengl mode??
(i know about the certified cards on the SW site!)

Motherboards nowadays can have two PCI-e slots. All info I can find is about SLI with two identical cards. But could it be that, for example, in the Bios you can select which card to use for the next computersession? This combined with two installations of windows (normal use and SW use).


Hope some of u can advise me..

 

[keepinitcool]

You could try to use the game card for SW, although you may run into problems. Only you can find out if that is the case. However, you should be able to put in two PCIe cards and run them at the same time. You can disable them from Windows by disabling the driver. Or you could just not activate the monitor that it is connected to. In this case, you would need a monitor that could support two inputs (or a switch device), one from each card, then you just switch between them.

I have a monitor with a DVI and VGA card connected (two different computers though), and I just switch between them.

 

[pietje]

Thanx keepinitcool!!

I think about buying a 22'' widescreen that indeed has two inputs that u can switch between. Perfect!

Maybe you or someone else can help me further..

Will the disabled graphic card not work at all? Or will it still work as a standard-vga adapter and accordingly render a signal (and thereby consume power)?

I don't know if it's possible to have different hardware enabled for different users in a single windows installation?? Or is it necessary to make two seperate installations?


just to inform other readers with the same wish as me:

I've been doing some more research. I found out that two pci-e graphiccards need two pci-e x16 slots. A lot of motherboards come with two pci-e x16 slots, but if you look closer the second one is often only 4 lanes. I reckon that the graphicscard in that second slot will not perform as well as it would in a x16 slot.

Second thing I found out is that for some reason you should not mix a nvidia with an ATI card. Something to do with certain drivers that have to be shared...

 

[audiv8]

As a data point for your decision, when I bought my home system back around 2003 (a Gateway), I got an nVidia GeForce4 4200Ti or something like that with 128MB. I have played Doom, Thief, Cube & Sauebraten and have nothing but excellent performance on the game side. In SolidWorks, I have always been surprised at how well the card works compared to more expensive cards I have used at work (including some $3000 super card at one place).

 

[pietje]

thanx audiv8,

i am starting to think of investing in a motherboard with two full 16x pci-e slots (about $40-$50 extra), and for the moment only purchase a fancy gamecard. If my experience with SW is satisfactory I will leave it at that. If it isn't I can always buy an extra opengl card. Especially because I found out that even the budget models cost a lot of money.

still interested in peoples experiences though....

 

[Luca83]

I run an 8800GTS 640MB working from home sometimes, besides the occasional insignificant glitch and no realview, its actually really stable.

Try looking on ebay or google products for a good professional card, some places sell workstation videocard pulls for half price or more off the retail box MSRP.

Dell Precision 690

Xeon 5345 2.33Ghz Quad

Quadro FX3450 FW91.36
SW2008 Premium SP0 - Rhino 4.0

http://www.icanhascheezburger.com

 

[pietje]

for that money (8800GTS) one could buy itself a really nice .... low-end opengl card
and since you are accustomed to a fx3450 and not complaining...

thnx luca

 

[Luca83]

even though its an "Older Model" an FX3400 can be had for $350...

http://www.compuvest.us/ProductDetails.aspx?ProductID=210537

Dell Precision 690

Xeon 5345 2.33Ghz Quad

Quadro FX3450 FW91.36
SW2008 Premium SP0 - Rhino 4.0

http://www.icanhascheezburger.com

 

[keepinitcool]

If you want a game card, only consider the brand new 8800GT (beats 8800GTS in almost all tests) which is almost as good as the $500+ model, but cost about half the price (at least in the US ~$260).

 

[pietje]

thnx for the tips luca and kic

for the interested reader, i'll let u know in a couple of weeks time what system i built and how well it's performing with SW.

 

[StefanHamminga]

I benched the 8800GTS 640MB against the FX 3500 256MB in several pro OpenGL tests about half a year ago. From memory the 8800GTS got about 30% off the FX 3500 performance.

Stefan Hamminga
EngIT Solutions
CSWP/Mechanical designer
Searching Eng-Tips forums

 

[mjcole]

Would buying two cheaper graphics cards be better than buying a more expensive powerhouse one?

I'd like to buy a Powerhouse Card for home use as well. Let me know your results. I know Desktop Engineering magazine has done graphic card reviews and tests in the past and most likely in the future. You can search their website for past issues available online at the following likk

http://www.deskeng.com

Use the Search DE:

Here's a link to an article in one of the summer issues.
Even More Graphics Power

Michael

 

[pietje]

stefan, thnx for the info. Does that large difference have equally large practical consequenses for let's say 100 hours a year of sw'ing? I doubt it, but am not 100% sure.

mj, I think it's the best way to go.. but i keep the option open to put in an extra fx560 when necessary.

 

[pietje]

update:
Ofcourse time changes opinions, so I changed my plan just a little.
I have recently ordered a 8800GTS and a motherboard that does not support a second 16x pci-e card. I bet on it that a powerhouse card will give me sufficient quality in SW.
A motherboard that would support a full extra 16x lane costs 100 bucks extra, let alone the minimum of 300 bucks for a quadro. (dont like secondhand either).
The card will be working on an overclocked core2duo E6850 with 4 Gig (3,2gig in XP) memory.
Next week the goods will be delivered. I will soon post my opinion on working with SW using a powerhouse gamecard.

 

[SBaugh]

IMO if you use a non-supported Video card, you have to take the good with that bad. If it crashes sometimes or often its just part of using a Non-certified card. You can't complained about because you were warned ahead of time.

I use a non supported card at home and I accept that if I crash or see strange things in my screen its just the way it is. However I have had great success with the 6600 GT Nvidia card and my 24" wide flat panel Monitor. I don't recommend this card to anyone simply because I have accepted if something happens its because its not certified. I have done ZERO hacks to the card and I can still play all my first person shooter games or any of my space games I choose.

Regards,

Scott Baugh, CSWP

http://www.scottjbaugh.com

"If it's not broke, Don't fix it!"

faq731-376

 

[pietje]

I accept the fact that it could cause some minor problems, and swear not to complain Scott
SW'ing using a budget card sometimes gets that bad that you cannot work properly anymore, like screens that will not refresh when you change views. My hope is that the card I bought reduces those problems to a acceptable level.
That I can play games on maximum settings is merely a unexpected but pleasant advantage

 

[pietje]

Well.. I swore not to complain, so I won't.
But I want to inform other people about my findings:

+
The 8800GTS is giving me great gameplay

-
When not using 'software opengl' in SW, the modelwindow screws up badly when doing particular stuff, like using the measuring tool.


I can use SW well when software opengl is enabled. Luckily I have a fast CPU, so it's not too bad. Btw graphic-drivers are uptodate, Intellipoint driver is disabled (can cause problems, see other threads).

As told before: SW'ing on a gamecard..., you'll need a bit of luck

I Gambled and lost... on the SW part that is... tomorrow Im gonna buy Crysis

(if anyone with a 8800 is doing fine without the 'software opengl' enabled, please leave a message)

 

[Luca83]

Are you running Vista or XP? I've noticed a big hit in graphics performance using the Vista version of SW on a gaming card.

Dell Precision 690

Xeon 5345 2.33Ghz Quad

Quadro FX3450 FW91.36
SW2008 Premium SP0 - Rhino 4.0

http://www.icanhascheezburger.com

 

[pietje]

XP, Luca. Thnx for the reply. I will stay away from Vista for at least another year, for reasons of (unjustified?) fear )
Are you using 'software opengl' or not? If not I would be very interested to know which graphic driver (version) you are using. And did you have to tweak some settings to get things working properly?

 

[pietje]

IMPORTANT INFO FOR USERS OF THE NVIDIA GEFORCE 8800GTS EXPERIENCING GRAPHICS PROBLEMS (may be important for similar geforce cards too)!!

Luca, I should have read more of the old threads on similar subjects. In thread559-185654 you already gave the solution to my problem:

"Just make sure that the Anti-Aliasing and Anthroscopic filtering are set to "application controled" or you will get some weird graphical anomalies in SW."

That did the trick for me. I can use SW without the "software opengl" enabled!!! Great stuff, I'm happy now