Outdoor detection recommendation

[markac]

Does anyone have a recommendation for fire detection required for elevator lobbies when elevator doors open to outside covered spaces?

This is a multi-unit, 3-story residential type building with elevators opening only to the outside. NFPA 72 Appendix A item A6.15.3.5 indicates that smoke detectors should not be installed outside. But it references 6.15.3.7, which notes that if ambient conditions prohibit smoke detector installation, other automatic detection is permitted.

Should we use heat detectors? Other thoughts?

 

[peebee]

I don't have an answer for you.

But the whole idea of elevator recall seems like it was intended for indoor installations -- would you really be protecting against an elevator opening onto a fire outside a building? Is there anything flamable out there?

I'd suggest calling your AHJ and see what he thinks. Put in whatever he wants.

 

[merprorenegade]

Alternative flame detection equipment could include flame detectors as manufactured by MSA, Detronics, and Thorn.

The principles involve include UV/IR flame detection and are regularly used in the oil and gas business.

Although I am not overly familar with NFPA, if you contact companies like above they should be able to provide you direction as to whether their equipment meets the regulations.

 

[louis]

From what I heard at the Spring NFPA meeting, I suspect the AHJ will agree to heat detectors.

 

[davidbeach]

Beam type smoke detectors are available with a much wider operating temperature range than the temperature range of spot type detectors.

 

[peebee]

Beam detectors won't work too well in sunlight, though.

 

[vmac100]

people, we should be careful with what we install. what i know is that the conventional heat and smoke detectors are passive components which depend on the migration of heat/smoke to the detector.as such, having them outdoor where there may be draft will render them useless for heat/smoke detection purposes. I will go with the flame detector, which is active.
regards

 

[davidbeach]

Careful with the flame detector, make sure you have one that won't false trip on direct or reflected sunlight.

 

[brushfire]

I have this same problem here and I talked to the Elevator inspector on this issue and he said there is no requirement in open air lobbys, but if it came to an issue to use pull stations to recall elevator but did not make much since, He also stated you may want any alarm to recall elevator, but then was left up to AHJ.