Overcoming the Obstacle of Subjective Procedures 1

[GrimesFrank]

Situation
Work with a colleague who is a tree's mortal enemy, prints out every detail imagineable. As part of company procedure he peer reviews/signs my work as I do his. He refuses to sign my work alot of the time as I don't "package" my work to the standard and care he does (nicely saying I don't cause printers fatigue failure quarterly).
He holds off his signature until his arm is twisted by my boss everytime (as my work is fine, we just "interpret" company procedures differently as they are very subjective).

Problem
Since it always looks like I am last minute on everything to everyone, but my boss, how do I "massage" my colleague into seeing things my way?

Frank "Grimey" Grimes

 

[CorBlimeyLimey]

More often than not, the best way to resolve any conflict is with compromise. You should give a little to get a little.

Find a place in the middle where both of you are equally (dis)content. It is unfair of one side of a (peacetime) conflict to expect the other side to completely surrender.

 

[MadMango]

There must be some level of objective requirements that you can cull from your procedures. Use that as your defense.

[green]"Art without engineering is dreaming; Engineering without art is calculating."[/green]

Have you read faq731-376 to make the best use of Eng-Tips Forums?

 

[MedicineEng]

If you feel that you are right, propose a change of the company's procedures, otherwise it will never end.
Quality and improvement in a company are not only with the "Quality Department" or "Those guys up there".

 

[toffeet]

Hello Frank,

See if you can get your hands on the following book:

"Product Development for the Lean Enterprise: Why Toyota's System Is Four Times More Productive and How You Can Implement It"

It's very easy read and will give you some insight to what is really important in the process product development.

Solid Edge V19 SP1 on WinXP SP2

 

[kchayfie]

Talk to your colleague and find out the specifics of his objections. If it is simply down to the style and appearance of your work then your complaints are probably justified but it might be that there is something more behind it. An example from my workplace to explain my meaning...

Your description makes me think you are like my colleague - he's an excellent engineer but puts the emphasis on getting a solution not documenting how he got there. I think I am like your colleague and I like to maintain a nice clear paper trail to well and truly cover my a$$. Sometimes, with a deadline looming, my colleague would ask me to check his work and I would sign it off, because I could "fill in the gaps" so to speak because I knew him well enough to know how his mind works. When time allowed, I would insist he provided all the information necessary so that any fool could understand where the answer came from (any fool doing our job that is!). Now when it comes to revisiting old projects, half of his work has to be done again because the next engineer can't figure out what he did and does it again for himself. And despite him being the best engineer we've got, very few people can borrow his designs to adapt it to their own projects because they can't tell how he went from step A to step E his project and so they don't know how to adapt steps B, C and D on their own.

Perhaps your colleague is looking to make life easier in the future at the expense of todays deadline. Maybe if you understand his reasons for being a pedant you'll be able to find a compromise somewhere down the middle.

 

[CarlPugh]

The real question is does your colleague believe that you provide inadequate documentatin or is your colleagure playing office politics.

If your colleagure believes that you are providing inadequate documentation, then discuss what should be documented with your colleague and with your boss.

If your colleague is playing office politics, then do whatever is necessary to delay his projects. Check everything he does and object to confusing/unnecessary documentation. Discussing the problem with your boss is also not a bad idea.

 

[GrimesFrank]

Toffeet,
Thanks, I'll check that book out.

kchayfie,
I'm sure if you ask my colleague that is what he would say (paper trail), however the problem being is when the product is out the door the only thing that doesn't see the trash bin is the drawing and the official calculation (if required).

An example of his nature; he believes if I quote ASME III ND-3512 in a calc; I should copy that page, highlight the section I'm referencing, and put it in the package. Rather than just the text reference next to the assumption/clarification made. Or if I am figuring pipe dead weight loadings I should copy the pipe schedule listing from Crane TP410 and throw it in the package. The best is, for him, if someone has sent him an e-mail with the smallest nugget of info he'll print out the chain (one was 12 pages once) and put it all in the package.

CarlPugh,
I don't think its politics with him, its just he is just obessive compulsive and needs things in a box for him to understand. His style is formulaic A-->B-->C and if you do C before B he gets all twisted. My style is come up with an idea and proof it by any and all means necessary.

I guess the answer to my dilemma is make him look so good he'll be promoted out of my way.



Frank "Grimey" Grimes

 

[cousink]

If I am presenting a design to my boss, it would seem as though I were saving him time by highlighting copies of the references, because unless he has them memorized, he would have to consult all the appropriate manuals to thoroughly understand my work. I know my boss is not going to give it the old college try. He is not going to the sources to check errors and attack my design. Actually I am saving myself time by preemptively striking him with every source he needs. Those highlighted copies are my defense.

Anyway the moral of the story is that your colleague wants to be your boss. ...but seriously, if he is sharing liability, to me it seems courteous to present him with copies of the references, so he doesn't have to swim through several techincal manuals in on his way to the source for your design. Highlighted lines on the copy of reference would be a bonus.

Still, as a professional, I think you could reasonably disagree with your colleague. My dad is a retired mechanical engineer, and he disagrees.

 

[kontiki99]

You could consider mentioning your concerns to your boss and ask him his opinion. If he agrees with you, maybe he could resolve the issue.

If it distils down to, "What is the reality of the desired standard of work" maybe he can shed some light for you both.

If your co-worker is expending resources in "no value added" effort, it may be simply waste.

 

[BJC]

You could copy as many of the requred references and print them out in "Small fonts". You mignt get them all on one page if you use a size of 5.5.
If he complains ask where in the proceedure font size is given.
If he still complains next time give him size 18 and about 200 sheeto of paper.
Then you can go to weird fonts.

 

[epoisses]

"He refuses to sign my work alot of the time as I don't "package" my work to the standard and care he does"

Just look at the situation from his point of view for a moment. Apparently he is a perfectionist and he does his work with a lot of care. He wants your work to be of the same standard, he does not like shortcuts - after all his signature will be on it.

So what's wrong with that?

What's the problem of printing a couple trees worth of paper if the result is a faultless design? (I have no idea what you design but it might explode in people's faces if done uncorrectly)

 

[CorBlimeyLimey]

Give him everything he wants in electronic format and let him print whatever he wants.

 

[tickle]

Organisations have no memory.

I can see where you colleague is coming from; saving time by including copies of the relevant sections of standards, showing you have used the correct standard, copying pump curves etc.make a descrete package that can be a reference.

I treat every calculation as though it is going to be questioned in court. If I have a dozen attachments on the back of my calcs that show where I have got the data and assumptions, there can be no question of what I have done. It may be wrong - but I have the evidence.

 

[GrimesFrank]

Thanks all I see your point about saving him time in his peer review.

There's nothing wrong with him being concerned about a design that his signature will be on, but me photocopying War & Peace doesn't make it anymore reliable. The references I make are sitting on his shelf just as they are mine. I always include required references (e.g. pump curves, anchor loading data, etc.) but when he's asking me to copy the page I got Bernoulli's Theorem from, thats asking abit much I think.

Just as a note, my boss leans on my side, but in my industry (nuclear) you can't argue with someone who claims to do something in the name of "nuclear safety".

Frank "Grimey" Grimes

 

[kchayfie]

It sounds like it is just a clash of work styles. I like to have all the references attached and highlighted but providing I am given enough information to locate the references for myself (files paths for electronic documents, or book title and page number, etc) then it really just boils down to laziness on my part to insist on anything more (because I can't be bothered to go and look it up for myself).

In your situation, I would make it clear to your boss/project manager/project team when you have completed your work and have passed it to him for review. That way they will be able to see where the project delays lie. And when he blames it on not having a copy of the ASME standard, go to his shelf, take his copy down and open it to the right page for him. And if your in a bitchy mood a throw-away line about his ability to open books might just drive home your point!!

 

[ruggedscot]

Ive been in a similar position before and have to say that you have to fall in with your colleague on this one - Doing the font size and type thing would only serve to make you look really bad and could play into this individuals game plan.

Watch that he is not out to try and run you down or the like.

When I do reports I like to ensure that all bases are covered - this is the script nowadays Im afraid and simple brief works tend not to meet the average expecations out there. Negotiate with this guy and get some form of concrete gameplan set down. This is vital - Any expected level agreements in place ? Any methods for prepreation of technical documentations? If not then do this get it ratified. Its easier in the long run - if this guy is going overboard then you are right its a waste of effort but then again if you are not putting in the effort then you are not closing the job and completing the task.

Different views and all that can cause friction.

How is this guy towards you in other areas ? How is he with other employees? How does he fair with management / customer?

Always makesure that you have your work documented as in when it was submitted and such - ensure that you do what is required to the letter of the request.

Rugged

 

[JRESE]

I would think about creating a standard appendix to include with your work. I would guess that most of your work uses the same references each time. Just compile the most common references into a standard appendix that is maintained in your office. The boss would probably like to see a reduction in paperwork, and would go for that approach.


Regards,

Jim Emanuel

 

[toffeet]

The important question remains. Where is the customer in all of this?

We tend to get so into standards and procedures that we forget what activities really add value for the customer. I am not saying that standards and procedures are not important, what I am saying is that it should not be the “driving force” behind our daily activities, the needs of the customer should be.


Solid Edge V19 SP1 on WinXP SP2

 

[GrimesFrank]

Rugged,
Other than him reviewing my work, my colleague and I get along well, I mean we're not going out for a brew afterhours but I can chit-chat with the man during work hours. I just can't talk to him about this, if you ask him he's never been wrong in his life.

toffeet,
The "customer" could care less other than the fact that he never allows me to get the package to the field ahead of a due date. It affects my efficiency as alot of the time I have another package completed while he's reviewing the last package.

I have no problem if he wishes to do his work that way, I'm not responsible for his throughput; however my main problem is that since no bar has been set by management people are blindly copying his style (complaining all the while mind you). I feel like Don Quixote or something sometimes, or I'm trying to fight the tide from coming in.

On an extra note;
Since the boss announced I'm his fill-in (2nd in command) I've noticed my work doesn't get the complaints as before. Interesting?

Frank "Grimey" Grimes