P4 1.7GHz compared to P4 3.0GHz

[francob]

How would a 1.7 P4 with 786 RAM compare to a P4 3.0 GHz with 1 or 2 GB of dual channel RAM, when it comes to stability issues in doing large assemblies?? And going from 1 to 2 GB or RAM, is there a huge difference there?

I'm about to tell my boss what system i need but just wondering what a new system could do.. (miracles, i hope)..

we have 4 solidworks stations all running 1.7 or 1.8 P4.. and we all seem to crash about 3 - 5 times a day, which to me seems completely unnecessary.

by the way we do have Quadro FX 500 graphics cards..

 

[SBaugh]

With the Quadro see thread559-86093

If your crashing see FAQ559-884, faq559-507 or faq559-488

A new computer is not going to stop you from crashing if you don't do Basic Computer Maintenance once a week (clean temp, defrag (depending on the amount of files you do in a week)) and if you don't upgrade your drivers to the newer version then you can count on more instability. If you install SW with an AV was on, then you can count on instabilities. There are a number of things that can cause crashes. Before you talk your boss into buying you new systems, make sure for a that it's the computer system and not the fact you didn't look at simply cleaning and doing basic "Computer Maintenance". It could be the personal profile of the person. Make a new prfile and see if the crashing stops. To test a video card turn the Hardware acceleration all the way down and run SW. If your crashing stops then it a video card or it's driver. If you have Hyperthreading on your computer - turn it off. Hyperthreading causes slower performance. If your going from 1 to 2 Gig of RAM - My question to you is were you running out or getting low on memory with the files you were opening? If not, then I don't see why 2 Gig's will help you. (You can check this by watching your Task Manager). Check your Virtual memory settings as well - I set mine to 3-4 times the amount of RAM used. Also, are you running the files locally or over a network? If over a network and your crashing. Try them locally, then see if you crash. If not the problem might be in your Network.

There are a number of places to look before you buy new machines. I'm not trying to discourage you into not buying new computers. But in this day and age, I would hate to see you talk your boss into buying something that you really don't need yet. I don't think your boss or the company would like you spending extra dollars on something that could have been repaired by a driver, a new personal profile, or reinstall.

Regards,

Scott Baugh, CSWP

http://www.3dvisiontech.com

http://www.scottjbaugh.com

faq731-376

 

[francob]

I should add that when I run Performance monitor on the CPU when working in Solidworks it's almost constant at 100%.. when I rotate any part or assembly it's a 100%. Is that normal??

 

[SBaugh]

Yes that's normal.

Scott Baugh, CSWP

http://www.3dvisiontech.com

http://www.scottjbaugh.com

faq731-376

 

[Theophilus]

Are you using up all your RAM currently? If so, sending memory to pagefiles can cause major instability. Increasing RAM is a quick, cheap fix.

I just replaced my P3 667 (that's right) with a much more substantial system (64-bit Opteron). However, my P3 was extremely stable--hardly ever crashed--and was even stable in virtual memory. (Oxygen card.)

Unless you're using up all your RAM regularly, I don't know what would be causing the crashes.




Jeff Mowry
Industrial Designhaus, LLC

http://www.industrialdesignhaus.com

 

[Theophilus]

(Lots of responses since I started typing my last response.)

No, I don't think it's quite normal for your CPU to be chugging that hard unless your doing something like rotating the model or performing an operation. You should only see peak activity when things are really getting done--otherwise the CPU graph should be somewhere in between.




Jeff Mowry
Industrial Designhaus, LLC

http://www.industrialdesignhaus.com

 

[SBaugh]

He listed "when I rotate any part or assembly it's a 100%" and when I rotate my model (and it was a very basic model) my CPU topped out between 86% - 100%. I stayed right at 100% unless I slowed down a bit... but 100% IMO is a bit normal. That's because it has to calculate the postion of the model everytime you rotate it.

Regards,

Scott Baugh, CSWP

http://www.3dvisiontech.com

http://www.scottjbaugh.com

faq731-376

 

[francob]

assumptions assumptions..please,.. you seem blame basic computer maintenance as well as free spending.. My question was directed at people who do have 3.0 GHz computers and those that have upgraded.. to fill me in on their experience..

additional info:

may I add that I am also the network administrator of our company and that no I am not the free-spending type.. I make sure I have reasoning behind everything I propose..

As with SolidWorks, I have tried everything I could think of, everything that you, SBaugh, mentioned..

1. I access files both locally and remotely but doesn't make a difference

2. I clean my temp drive several times a week

3. Defrag is not an issue as crashes happened right after a clean install

4. Drivers: I have tried at least 6 different versions of drivers, the newest...the older ones, and the one that worked best on my PC was several revisions old

5. AV a non-issue

6. HT doesn't exist in CPU's with bus speed of under 800MHz

7. Hardware acceleration; I've tried taking it off

8. RAM! I had 512, my PC was using about 450. I upgraded to 786, now it's using about 650.. the higher you go, the more it will utilize the physical RAM rather than the RAM on the hard drive.. if the PC has more physical RAM the less virtual space it needs.. and virtual RAM is slow. Now i know that 1 GB would increase my performance, but the reason I asked about 2 GB was that I know people out there have 2 GB, and am wondering whether Solidworks utilizes most of that, since I haven't yet run solidworks in 2 gigs. And yes, my virtual RAM is at its limit.

9. Personal Profile is a non-issue

10. reinstall hardly seems necessary, as 4 computers all act the same.


hope that info will help...

 

[SBaugh]

assumptions assumptions..please,.. you seem blame basic computer maintenance as well as free spending.. My question was directed at people who do have 3.0 GHz computers and those that have upgraded.. to fill me in on their experience..

I'm not criticizing you, I just wanted to make sure all basis were covered.

additional info:

may I add that I am also the network administrator of our company and that no I am not the free-spending type.. I make sure I have reasoning behind everything I propose..

Again “I'm not criticizing you”

As with SolidWorks, I have tried everything I could think of, everything that you, SBaugh, mentioned..

1. I access files both locally and remotely but doesn't make a difference

It should make a difference in speed of loading, saving, closing and even crashing sometimes.

2. I clean my temp drive several times a week

Good!

3. Defrag is not an issue as crashes happened right after a clean install

Clean install of what - SW or Windows? If it’s SW I would still do a defrag because if you haven’t done one prior to the install of SW you might have some mixed up files or something causing a problem somewhere.

4. Drivers: I have tried at least 6 different versions of drivers, the newest...the older ones, and the one that worked best on my PC was several revisions old

Use the ones that SW recommends for the card.

5. AV a non-issue

Why is that? Do you not have an Anti-Virus on the system? Do you run one from the server?

6. HT doesn't exist in CPU's with bus speed of under 800MHz

Just thought I would mention it

7. Hardware acceleration; I've tried taking it off

You mean turned it down. Then try this Open SW go to Tools\Options\System Options\Display/Selection\ and check “Software OpenGL” – Also try restarting in VGA mode.

8. RAM! I had 512, my PC was using about 450. I upgraded to 786, now it's using about 650.. the higher you go, the more it will utilize the physical RAM rather than the RAM on the hard drive.. if the PC has more physical RAM the less virtual space it needs.. and virtual RAM is slow. Now i know that 1 GB would increase my performance, but the reason I asked about 2 GB was that I know people out there have 2 GB, and am wondering whether Solidworks utilizes most of that, since I haven't yet run solidworks in 2 gigs. And yes, my virtual RAM is at its limit.

If your files are demanding then yes they are going to use more. SW is a hog. You will get to a point where you will not use all the Physical RAM on the system. I have 1 gig and I usually don’t exceed 650 and that is on my most complicated model. I also run SW03 and 04 together and I don’t exceed that much RAM. What is your Virtual Memory set too?

9. Personal Profile is a non-issue

How do you figure it’s not? Have you tried making a new profile to see if it helps you or the user?

10. reinstall hardly seems necessary, as 4 computers all act the same.

If that the case have you ever thought that it might be a file issue?

Have you talked to your VAR about any or all of this?

I’m not trying to be critical here I just want to try and help you. Before you spend your cash on new systems. I think new systems may help for a little while and then again they may not. The Amount of RAM will help, but you didn’t list whether or not your Virtual Memory is set up correctly vs. the amount of RAM you have.

But if you don’t like my questions to you don’t have to answer them.

Regards,

Scott Baugh, CSWP

http://www.3dvisiontech.com

http://www.scottjbaugh.com

faq731-376

 

[francob]

.. I have no problem with answering questions.. that's exactly what i'm here for. but i do appreciate it when people are a bit more considerate.. an example:

Hardware acceleration: taking it off, turning it down, disabling some acceleration, disabling all, terminating it.... and so on.. is it that critical on how to describe it?.. MS uses disabled, so i suppose that is the most correct..

anyways,, enough about that..

.Yes, AV is run at the firewall level..
I did a clean install of Windows, and I've run solidworks under several profiles right after..

 

[CorBlimeyLimey]

francob
At the risk of having my head bitten off have you checked for spyware running on your machines. I thought I had my machine locked up tighter than a drum until I ran a spyware detection program. It found scores of them, & I had a noticeable increase in stability & performance after removing them.
You mentioned that your cpu is running close to 100% in Performance Monitor when in SW. What is it when you are not? With or without SW open but without anything actively working it should not be more than about 5%.
You also mentioned that you have your VM set at max. I read somwhere that Windows will only recognize 2Gig of VM. Is this correct?
One last thing, do you have the SW performance email enabled. I found that affected my system, albeit slightly, so switched it off.

from Barrie, Ontario.

I love defenseless animals, especially in a good gravy.
faq559-863

 

[francob]

.. I have not checked for spyware yet, but the CPU is at around 5% or less when nothing is happening. so it's normal for the processor to run at a 100%,, what happens then if you have a bigger processor? does it keep on using more power, however much you give it? And my crashes do happen when the CPU is maxed out. Logically it seems to me that more power might just prevent some of the crashes, especially when rebuilding, unless someone has a better explanation.. please let me know
Yea I have the VM set to 2048..

thanks for the tip on the performance e'mail.. I'll try everything I can.

 

[JNR]

First things first. VM is SLOW. Why not get some more data points. Throw some extra memory at one of your current machines, (if the MB will take it) - after you do all the above mentioned housekeeping, of course.

Actually, the short answer to the actual question you asked is of course the faster machine with more memory will be better - lots better. Whether you need 2GB or only 1 or even 1.5 would depend on your part and assembly size/complexity. Just make sure you have enough to avoid VM.

Why not get one new machine and try it first. If you are going to buy 3 more, you could work with your supplier to figure the right memory requirements, etc. and upgrade the first machine before you get the other 3. They ought to do that for you at no additional cost for swapping out memory if necessary - heck you are spending enough. Get them to loan you several different machines one at a time to try out even.

John Richards Sr. Mech. Engr.
Rockwell Collins Flight Dynamics

A hobbit's lifestyle sounds rather pleasant...... it's the hairy feet that turn me off.

 

[VernJJ]

I had scores of spyware programs causing many problems, get rid of them with Adaware and Spybot, use both of them.

Also, quicktime caused hang-ups, it would try to access the internet and crash SW, uninstall it.

*WAIT TO BUY A NEW SYSTEM(S)!* 64 bit technology is just around the corner. Don't get stuck with dino's. Try massaging your existing P4's for 6 months.

Vern
Unemployed engineering software salesman

 

[JNR]

Here's a thought. Are you using Norton AntiVirus and/or Internet Security, and/or are Word and Excel running slow?

There is an issue with a Verisign PCA root certificate which expired January 7th 1004. Symantec has a bulletin about it - see below.

http://service1.symantec.com/SUPPOR...88256e1400683f78?OpenDocument&src=bar_sch_nam

I had all kinds of speed problems on my home system until I dowloaded the new cert.

John Richards Sr. Mech. Engr.
Rockwell Collins Flight Dynamics

A hobbit's lifestyle sounds rather pleasant...... it's the hairy feet that turn me off.