Paper Space 4

[dik]

I'm in the process of learning to use paper space. My work is always drawn at full size and I've plotted from model space using a scaled up border and title block, the title block with attributes.

What is the best method for the transition from model to paper space?

I intend to use paper space for the border and title block. Do block attributes work from paper space?

Should dimensioning and notes be done in model or paper space?

Is it best to do the fine detailing in model space and use viewports and turn on/off layers to include these details in paper space at a larger scale?

I'll likely have a few more questions on this topic and am currently going over a paper space tutorial on the web. Any really good tutorials that can be recommended?

Dik

 

[IFRs]

This is a question with no right answer. I put only objects in model space and keep all dimensions, weld symbols, leaders, notes, text, title blocks, etc in paper space. I do this in part because it works for me and my customers and in part because when I insert or xref one drawing into another I like it that I get only model space objects - I can build assemblies without complicated layer management. It is a little easier for fab shops to take my drawings and put them into CNC. I always draw full size in model space and my title blocks in paper space are always 11" x 17" or 24" x 36" etc. I like it that all my text and dimensions are the proper size without manipulations since they are all in paper space. On the other hand I work with a firm that puts all text and dimensions in model space. It works for them and for their type of work it is probably the best model.

 

[dik]

Is it possible to dimension in model space and have a uniform text size in paper space. I'll try to see if the dimensions remain in the proper locations in paper space if the viewport is moved.

I've already found out that attributes for blocks can be readily accessed in paper space.

Thanks, for the reply.

Dik

 

[LUDPEKA1]

"Is it possible to dimension in model space and have a uniform text size in paper space."

Setup your Dim style so that on the fit tab the "Scale for dimension features" is set to "Scale dimensions to layout".

Next make sure on the Text tab that the "Text style" used has its height set to zero. With this combination you only need one main dimension style.

You work by placing any model space dimensions from paper space through an active viewport. All of the text scale type work is automatically taken care of. Make sure your viewport is "locked" so that you don't accidently change its scale.

 

[LUDPEKA1]

Also, as IFRs said, there is no right or wrong on as far as putting text and dimensions in paper or model space. It completely depends on your work flow. If you want to describe what you do and how you think you want to work we could give you advice based on our experiences.

 

[IFRs]

Ludpeka1 is correct - what he/she describes is the best way to place dimensions in model space so they appear correctly in paper space. The has to be done from within a viewport in paper space. If you are in the model tab your dimension will not have the proper text/arrow/etc size until you go back to the layout, click inside the viewport and "Update" the dimension.

 

[chicopee]

check out this thread no.159-230477

 

[dik]

My typical work would include structural steel or reinforced concrete floor plans and accompanying sections and details. I would like, for example, to use grade beam pilaster details for both the plan and reinforcing steel details by turning on/off the S-CONC-RBAR layer. Dimensions would include gridlines as well as pilaster detail dimensions. A structural steel example would include edge details, base plates, vertically slotted connections, cap plates and stiffeners with accompanying dimensions. At present all my work is two dimensional.

Dik

 

[chicopee]

dik, all drawings including dimensioning and notes are to be done in model space with proper text heights for notes and dimensions. By proper I mean that notes and dimensions under the dim style dialog box hould scaled properly. When you get in the paper space and open viewports with the proper scale factors, the items of interest in each viewport should be correct if everything done in model space was done correctly.

 

[dik]

Thanks, gentlemen... I'll start playing with it now...

Dik

 

[SKIAK]

In general I don't put dimensions on plan views in model space. They often get referenced by other departments in our firm (electrical/civil/mechanical) so it works out nice for them to reference our plans that way and not worry about turning off layers. Those dimensions and notes are in paper space. Specific details usually get dimensions in model space because, well, we have no reason not to... ?

We have set up detail templates with preset scales. So if I want a detail thats 1"=1'-0" I just open that template and all the dimensional settings (text/arrow size, title blocks, etc.) are already scaled in there so they come out the same size for all details when in scaled paper space view ports. With that said we have separate files for all of our details and xref them into a file we use for sheets. Its nice that way because if one person has a sheet open you can still edit details without worrying about opening them as read only. A rare occurrence but works well we it needs to.

 

[dik]

SKIAK:

Do you put your xrefs in model space and then bring them into paper space viewports? I've got hundreds/thousands? of details and usually paste these into the model space drawing; I've never thought of xref'ing them.

With xref'ing is it possible to open an older drawing and still view the old xref? I keep digital records of drawings I've prepared (Could be done using *.pdf's though). I sometimes change my details and of late have been including several related details on a single sheet in my library to reduce the total number of drawings and to make it easier to find stuff. I use copyblock to transfer the particular detail to the final model. I'm thinking of using viewports to do the same thing.

I assume you can use attribute blocks in paperspace as part of the drawing title template.

Dik

 

[SKIAK]

Yes, the xrefs are in model space, then in the viewport they are scaled depending on the scale of the detail/drawing and everything looks the same. When you open a drawing it will reload the xrefs, so if the xref gets updated it will be updated the next time you open the drawing (or you can update xrefs when the drawing is open). Although whenever we submit a package we bind all the xrefs and save a copy of the submitted package.

Whatever is in paperspace doesn't come in when you xref. You could use attribute blocks for templates on the paper space on the sheet if thats what you meant... this gets confusing to write about.

Xref'ing hundreds/thousands of details will get very old after a while, you can select several to bring in at once but they will all need to be placed where you want them. Might not work out well in that situation...

 

[IFRs]

My rules for Xrefs: (1) All XRefs are drawn 1:1 (2) All XRefs are drawn with the intent that they will be inserted at 0,0 with scale factors 1 and rotation 0 (3) XRefs will not have their own XRefs (no nested XRefs) (4) XRefs shall have all unused things, lists, layers, styles, scales, filters, etc shall be purged (5) All objects will have all of their properties ie LineTypeScale, LineType, plotstyle, width, color, etc set to ByLayer (6) All lines will be polylines whenever possible (7) Layer names will be short (8) All layers will the thawed and on (9) There will be no dimensions, leaders, text, callouts, etc in Model Space - only objects (10) Objects that are not to be plotted will all be on layer DefPoints

 

[dik]

Thanks very much, gentlemen... just getting into it, but have issued my first drawings using paperspace. It works really well by turning off/on layers and using. Got a little flack... using the company titleblock and borders as a template and not an xref... I'm not sure what the distinction is, but I like templates with attribute blocks. Also an initial problem with text being half the height when implemented in paperspace... and, was informed by the cad manager that you should dimension and make notes in model space... Over the next few weeks, I'll get comfortable with paperspace. Very good experience, so far.

again, thanks, Dik

 

[IFRs]

"was informed by the cad manager that you should dimension and make notes in model space" Too bad in my opinion but my advice is to not rock the boat - just do it and shrug.