Pattern Tables and Layouts 2

[Guest0527211403]

Hi Everyone

I'm working on a model which makes heavy use of pattern tables. The model is also to be controlled using a layout.

Here's a brief run-down of what I'm doing:
We have a few groups of features which are controlled by dimensions and relations which regulate their position and several internal sizes. We've created pattern tables to control these features and we are quite happy with the output. But, in order to modify the pattern instances, I need to edit the pattern table itself. Another problem is that the number of instances can also vary.

We would like to be able to update the values in the pattern table from the layout. Ideally, we would be able to specify the number of instances as a parameter, and input the controlling dimensions in a table on the layout.

I've seen the method recommended by mjcole in thread554-86497 and I am considering using something similar to that, where a controlling parameter would swap one pattern table for another. This would allow me to swap (for example) a 5 member table with a 6 member table. This limits us to predefined tables, however, which will not give us the degree of flexibility we are looking to achieve.

We can change these values by opening up the table itself and editing it from within the pattern. We could also create a table in excel and import it into the pattern table editor. But- we are looking for a more elegant solution where we can simply fill in values in a layout table and read that into the pattern table.

Does anyone have any ideas about how I can link a layout to the values in one or more pattern tables?

Thanks in advance

 

[Hora]

JKG,
you can try relations pattern. Harder than any other method, but great results.

-Hora

 

[Guest0527211403]

yikes!

I was afraid of that. Hora, I'm with you on the pattern relations but that means I'm going to have to write some really messy relations for (eek!) well over 50 parameters to make it go. This came up too, and we decided it would take too long.

So far I've getting the powers that be here to accept the fact that this cannot be controlled from a layout in the way they want, in the amount of time they want it done in.

What I'm working towards now is a simple excel file with a VBA script to export a *.PTB file. The engineers then send this PTB file to the designers who fire up the model and read the file into a new pattern table.
See you in the VBA forum

 

[Hora]

Good luck JKG,

I will give up too when is time to program ProE pattern relations with 50 parameters. Besides, as you said in table relation, you can control the shape of the pattern, while in the pattern relation you can only control the position.

Just wondering if an UDF can make your life easier?

All the best,

-Hora

 

[Guest0527211403]

Thanks Hora

I proposed a UDF and the management wanted a solution which involved less interaction from the mechanical designer (i.e. me) when the model is actually used to produce shop drawings. They didn't like the idea of someone having to apply the UDF 6 or 7 times. I feel like I'm designing myself into extinction sometimes..

This is a "library" file which, when done, is intended to have parameter information input from a layout (it's a chunk of a wind tunnel). The data for the layout is coming from folks across various disciplines (aero, mech, civ) who each have their own say in the final shape of the model and the support structure.

I tried a little dummy model with some pattern relations before I left the office last night, and the bosses seem to like it. The more I think about it, the more I realize the logic is basically the same for every dimension, so I'm going to try to take it the next step and try my luck at copy/paste and edit-replace commands in notepad...

I'll let you know how it goes.

 

[Guest0527211403]

Hora,

I took your advice to heart today and it worked great!

Here's a simplified version of what I did for the sake of our readers...

We are building stiffeners along the span of our contraction, the sizes of which vary in groups. For example, we could have three "types" of T-Stiffeners.

The basic dimensions of the stiffeners are the height (h), flange width (b), flange thickness (t) and web thickness (s).
So for each set, I created the global parameters:
s*_h
s*_b
s*_t
s*_s

Where * refers to the set # to which the parameters belong.

There are actually four unique stiffeners per group, which are all patterned together along the contraction (with gussets to join them). In total, I end up with a lot more than four parameters, but they will suffice for this example.

So.. I then created another set of parameters which tells me how many of each set I use. This is assuming that each set corresponds to neighboring stiffeners (i.e. 2 of type 1, 3 of type 2, 1 of type 3....) these parameters would be:
s1_qty
s2_qty
and so on....

So now.. for each dimension in the pattern, I used the general relation:

if (idx1+1) <= s1_qty
memb_v = s1_h
endif
if (idx1+1) > s2_qty
if (idx1+1) <= (s1_qty + s2_qty)
memb_v = s2_h
endif
endif
if (idx1+1) > (s1_qty + s2_qty)
if (idx1+1) <= (s1_qty + s2_qty + s3_qty)
memb_v = s3_h
endif
endif

Where I would replace s*_h with the appropriate parameter.
So what happens is that when the index number of the pattern instance (plus one since it starts from zero) falls between the values I indicate for the set quantities, the dimensions are equated to the global parameters which I had set previously.

I then repeated this ad nauseam for each dimension in the group. This is where the replace command in notepad really helped out.

So now, I can equate parameters from a layout table (manually created and filled in) to the global parameters which set my stiffener sizes.

The only practical limit to what I've done is the number of unique sets I can use, but if I want to increase that number I just have to create new parameters for that set and append a few extra lines of code to my relations (an hour or so of work).
Thanks again Hora for nudging me in that direction again. If we ever meet, I owe you a beer

 

[Hora]

Thank you JKG.

I'm a fan of relation patterns. I think this is a wonderful feature of ProE. And when you are able to program a pattern using relations, which is not easy, but challenge you, then you will feel absolutely great. I think is something than no other CAD program can give you. And I'm very happy when someone else can do it. I saw your enthusiasm.

And because we are at the confession point, there is another feature of ProE very powerfull: pattern, moving or/and rotating a fully constraint component using coordinate system. I don't know if you ever used this, but is absolutely a great tool. Maybe it will help you in your quest for an automatic design.

In ProE2001:

Imagine you have a part assembled on another part. You cannot move the first part because is fully constraited. But if you use the Modify -> Mod Assembly -> Move -> Seklect a ccordinate system -> Select your part, then you can specify Rotation and Translation. ProE will add new dimensions to your component. These dimensions will overight your constraints. You can use these dims to rotate, move or pattern your component without creating additional datum planes or other stuff. Great feature. Only one cons: If you redefine you component constraints, you'll loose the dimensions created by move operation. The only limit> Your imagination. Go ahead and give it a try.

I'm happy you were succsesfull. You are our champion here.

I'm from Montreal, and if I'm not wrong, you are a canadian too. Who knows maybe we'll meet some day. That will be great! Maybe we can count on Steve (3dlogix) too.

Good luck JKG!

-Hora

 

[ttx]

Hora,
Thanks for the above assembly tip.

I think that there are few "Canucks" in this forum...
Maybe at least three!
I can tell you though, Pro/E is big in Vancouver - on the island, it is all SolidWorks...and there is a lot of Mech. Eng. done here...

Cheers,

JW

Hope I don't get flagged for being OT...

 

[Hora]

Hey JW,

Nice to hear from you, too. About the assembly tip, give it a try with some simple parts. You will be amazed, as I was when I tried first.

One thing you'll never think it can be done in ProE using this tool: you can rotate any member of a pattern arround it's x, y and/or z axis!

Have a nice day!

-Hora