PDM systems - what should we get? 2

[tummen]

We have decided that our current file model is not working as we expand with more and more users having project files on the server.

because of this i started looking into PDM systems, i have been using subversion before in programming projects and know what i can expect from this. But when i now compare this to solidworks workgroup pdm i soon realize that it is not a flexible program and checking out project version to different folders seems not to work at all (according to our VAR mpengieering)
there is a enterprice version but sofar i have not tried it.
What PDM systems are you using and how good are they?
We have a separate system for keeping track of project management and dont need any kind of task or project state handling.

I want to check in versions of my files, keep track of where these files are used.

 

[jassco]

Hi,

What is "subversion before in programming projects"?

If you have a good system, it basically does not matter how many users you have. Expanding with more and more users should not change your PDM process.

We use a custom database PDM with all documents (not limited to SW documents). The database has its rules. The process is kind of automated. The trick is rules of relationship and ownership of your documents (data).

What do you mean by "I want to check in versions of my files"?

Best regards,

 

[tummen]

It seems you dont know what a document handling system / PDM system is.
It haldles documents by taking copies from your local files and stores them in a central storage. to put a file from your disk to the storage is called "check in" and to get them from the system is called "check out". the system has owner control and you check out files either with read/write or just read access to prevent to people from changing the fila simultaniously. A good pdm system for CAD also handles relocating of all internal relations between files.
If i checkout two different revisions (newer and older version) to different directories it will also make all drawings and asms get these search paths updated internaly.

 

[ewh]

It seems you dont know what a document handling system / PDM system is.

Whoa there... I don't think you'll get much advice with an attitude like that.

I am also curious as to what "subversion before in programming projects" actually means.

"Good to know you got shoes to wear when you find the floor." - [small]Robert Hunter[/small]

 

[fcsuper]

I think you may need to consider changing your thinking when it comes to file management and the use of a PDM application. You no longer need to sub-divide your harddrive into many folders for projects because Workgroup PDM controls the files within projects within the vault. You only need one folder on your harddrive in 99% of the cases. The 1% you might need to store files in a separate folder are for temporary use, like when you need to compare two different revisions of the same model. This is very rare.

Enterprise is far better. Files are handled within the vault, even before they are checked in, so never have to deal with folders on your harddrive. EPDM works seemlessly within both SolidWorks and Windows Explorer.

Whether you can use Workgroup PDM or may need Enterprise PDM has more to do with your desire to establish workflows. WPDM doesn't have workflows (and its lifecycle capabilities are almost worthless in many cases). EPDM has a very powerful workflow editor.

Matt Lorono, CSWP
Lorono's SolidWorks Resources & SolidWorks Legion
Follow me on Twitter

 

[MikeHalloran]

Uh, ewh, "subversion" is in this case not a verb, but the name of a document control system that is popular among programmer types.



Mike Halloran
Pembroke Pines, FL, USA

 

[CorBlimeyLimey]

"Subversion" is an open-source revision control system.

http://subversion.apache.org/

tummen
Obviously English is not you native language. Your lack of capitalization and grammar does make it clear that Subversion is software, especially if the reader has never heard of it.

Have you looked at the other Partner Product offerings?

http://www.solidworks.com/sw/products/search/results.htm

 

[tummen]

No i´m from Sweden and my attitude might offend someone but I think that its strange thing to reply to questions that you don´t seem to understad in the first place...

Subversion is easy to find information on and for me its natural to google things if i find words in a text i dont know before I ask about it.

That said I know there are other products then the ones Solidworks that provide a real PDM system, enterprice is one but its far from ceap. I say one mentiond a few days ago in some forum but i just cant find my way back to this now.

We do not draw small pieces of a big end product we handle about 1-200 concurrent projects from different customers and all the files tied to one project should be in one place + subfolders, this concerns customer part models in Solidworks, Catia, Step, Iges, Pdf, Dwg, Jpg, Drw, Word, Powerpoint, Excel formats etc. along with this all documents supplied by the customer for the current projekt. if all these document where put in one big folder it would make our lives very very very hard.

 

[jassco]

Hi, tummen:

I used a couple of PDM/PLM before. I also developed a custom PDM for the company where I work. So, I know what PDM/PLM are.

Your data models and processes seem questionable. If you are searching for a solution, you may want to keep your mind open.

If you have a need to checkout two different revisions (newer and older version) to different directories, then there is an issue. Two different revisions are not supposed to coexist at same time.

Your data are supposed to be managed by your PDM, not your folders. I don't understand your claim that if all these documents where put in one big folder it would make your lives very very very hard.

Best regards,

 

[tummen]

As i stated above its not possible to know what documents belong to one project if im not putting them into a structure. We checkout the different files we use and then leave the building some working off line, this makes it impossible to rely on a connection to some database to tell me what documents belong where.
And I absolutely see no point in having secret customer drawings mixed with my drawings and documentation files all in a big mess in one folder. Windows does not even handle 10 000 files in one folder very well. And yes we usually need to have a few hundred files locally for each project and a designer needs to keep about 20-40 projects in read only state copys on there hard drives.

I´m not intrested in changing our structure i´m intrested in finding what PDM systems exist that offers integration with Solidworks file relations.
The links to all partner program was good to have but sofar i did not rellay find any Products there that got my attention.

 

[ewh]

I´m not intrested in changing our structure i´m intrested in finding what PDM systems exist that offers integration with Solidworks file relations.

OK, let me see if I've got this right...
you want to find a system that offers integration with SW file relations, but are unwilling to make any changes in your existing file structure. Plus you don't want your "secret" drawings mixing in with your other files in "one big mess". You also want to be able to "remove" files to work offline. I assume that you also want to put those files back into the system and have everything work seamlessly.
I'm beginning to think that you are the one who doesn't understand what PDM systems are/are not capable of.
Good luck!

"Good to know you got shoes to wear when you find the floor." - [small]Robert Hunter[/small]

 

[tummen]

I have been educating in programming for engineers at the royal Institute of technology KTh in Swedn for 11 Years and im use to PDM systems for programming projects and i know what i wand what i can expect from them.
It easy i asked what people are using and if they are happy with their solution, I´m not inerested in defending my thoughts about structuring information.
And yes all that i want is possible in a version handling documentsystem so its not impossible to get its just hard to find the companys on the net.
Why do you think windows and all other PC / mac / linux systems have folder based structures? if your solution is the only good one why would not all files in a computer be stored in a big mess.

 

[ShaggyPE]

We use PTC Windchill... it is okay.

-Dustin
Professional Engineer
Pretty good with SolidWorks

 

[ewh]

I have been working in the real world for a bit more than 11 years, and I have found that one of the most valuable contributions of a PDM system in an engineering/manufacturing environment is the control of your data. If the system is good at control, then it makes little difference if a file is "secret" or not. By definition, access is controlled. As soon as a user takes a copy "offline", that control is gone.

I, for one, have never claimed any solution as "the only good one". There are many out there with differing strengths and weaknesses as well as different cost points. From experience, I do know that choosing "the best" for any particular situation is far from simple. I admit that finding one that meets your requirements is beyond my abilities.

"Good to know you got shoes to wear when you find the floor." - [small]Robert Hunter[/small]

 

[ArtL]

Why the hell are you asking for help when you know it all already????

 

[fcsuper]

There may be a general miscommunication here. The PDM handles projects in any way you wish. You can actually emulate folder-file structure within Enterprise, as it has folders that are viewable via Windows Explorer. Workgroup is a little more limited, but still highly functional.

Sometimes a company may get target-fixation on one particular methodology, and may not be able to see how a PDM system can improve methods. In Workgroup and Enterprise, access can be controlled at the project/folder level, but also at the level of the individual file. In Enterprise, there is also excellent control of the process that handles the files.
As far as "mess" goes, that has more to do with how you expect to see your list of files. Many PDMs don't even have direct views of the vault, instead relying on search and filter functions. In such a case, organization of files doesn't matter as long as they can be retrieved very quickly. Even with good search/filtering, Workgroup and Enterprise both still allow you to browse their vaults directly.

The advantage of Enterprise and other higher end PDM's is that they allow you to manage much more of your data than just files themselves. For example, BOM management is, in my opinion, much more important than were a file happens to be stored.

I would recommend opening up your search for a PDM to include functions that can leverage your data to streamline processes. I would also recommend not focusing so much on actual file locations, or at least realize it may not be as important as it may seem.

Matt Lorono, CSWP
Lorono's SolidWorks Resources & SolidWorks Legion
Follow me on Twitter

 

[fcsuper]

Some other options:

keytech
ENOVIA V6
SmarTeam
Windchill
TeamCenter

But in my experience (I've seen all of these demo'd), Enterprise is the best choice for a SolidWorks environment.

Matt Lorono, CSWP
Lorono's SolidWorks Resources & SolidWorks Legion
Follow me on Twitter

 

[KevinDeSmet]

Matt,

Does Enterprise PDM have the capability to define a BOM structure and then pump out the corresponding empty SolidWorks documents? Like Treehouse from the SW Labs.

Certified SolidWorks Professional

 

[fcsuper]

Kevin,

Yes. It can create virtual documents that can later be filled (replaced) with actual SW files. It is up to the admin to establish the workflow for this operation, so there are a variety of ways in which this can be implemented.

Matt Lorono, CSWP
Lorono's SolidWorks Resources & SolidWorks Legion
Follow me on Twitter

 

[ctopher]

I suggest having the PDM companies show you demos so you can see first hand how they work.

Chris
SolidWorks 10 SP4.0
ctopher's home
SolidWorks Legion