PE limits for sign/seal on projects out of their fields 4

[jrk7490]

Is it me or is the PE designation heading for a catastroghy. I am asking for feedback on the issue when PE's sign/seal documents on systems in an industry they know nothing about. My latest encounter to this issue was where a PE and PMP whose main fortay was inspecting the stress in screws for window frames. He moonlights in the plumbing and fire protection engineering industry. He asked me what the difference was between an RPZ and a double check aasembly. It is very frightful when this person is signing/sealing on firesprinkler systems and backflow application documents. Please give you feedback and thoughts on this ever rising troubling issue.

 

[SLTA]

Isn't that what the state review boards are for?

 

[DRWeig]

I would report it.

Good on ya,

Goober Dave

Haven't see the forum policies? Do so now: Forum Policies

 

[woodman88]

Per Arizona Rules, "A registered professional engineer may accept professional engagements or assignments in branches of engineering other than that branch in which the registrant has demonstrated proficiency by registration but only if the registrant has the education, technical knowledge, or experience to perform such engagements or assignments."

Garth Dreger PE - AZ Phoenix area
As EOR's we should take the responsibility to design our structures to support the components we allow in our design per that industry standards.

 

[JAE]

Most of the US state engineering laws are self-enforced; where the individual engineer is required to make the decision based upon their self-knowledge of their experience, education, work experience, etc. (per woodman88 above).

But if the engineer deviates too far, and something goes wrong, or the client is dissatisfied and reports that engineer, they could be called to account for their work. If you read the engineering board reports on their disciplinary activities you do see engineers "convicted" by the boards sometimes.

 

[Ron]

Most states have rules similar to the one woodman88 noted. There are numerous "non-discipline" states in which the criteria are as stated. In "discipline specific" states, the criteria are much more restrictive as to how far one can venture outside a normal practice area.

As JAE noted, such a venture will increase ones chance of a board reprimand, fines or forteiture of a license. Further, in the event of a design defect on something with such life safety implication, the personal/professional liability is extremely high.

 

[beej67]

I wonder whether the guy's professional liability insurance would like to know he's stamping stuff outside his field. I know mine would.

Hydrology, Drainage Analysis, Flood Studies, and Complex Stormwater Litigation for Atlanta and the South East -

http://www.campbellcivil.com

 

[Ron]

beej...if you have enough integrity to tell your insuror, you have enough integrity not to do it anyway.

 

[jrk7490]

Thank you all. I agree with all of the responses however, the biggest concern lies within Ron's reply regarding the "design defect" issue. If there is a design defect in fire sprinkler system design, it is then too late. Is ones professional registration an even trade for ones life? I believe not.

 

[Ron]

jrk7490...of course it isn't an even trade, that's why it is necessary to make sure that such engineers are brought to the attention of their respective state boards for appropriate action.

If you are sure of the facts and consider the engineer's actions to be contrary to the protection of the health, safety and welfare of the public, then your obligation in most states is to report that.

 

[MiketheEngineer]

Agree with all above!! But how do you get "experience" without asking questions?? And the first questions are often pretty "dumb".

But he should not be signing off until he has mentor to look over his shoulder for a while.

 

[jrk7490]

Ron, Thank you for your much appreciated responses. The problem I have is that I am a local chapters' VP elect and founding member of a professional engineering society. However, so is the person in question. How do I or anyone proceed in this perdicament? Any advise would be greatly appreciated.

 

[MiketheEngineer]

Anonymous report to the board or ask him if he knows what he is doing?? Of course the answer will be "Yes"...

 

[Ron]

Most boards do not allow anonymous reporting.

jrk7490...
Do your homework and make sure you have all the facts correct and can apply those facts within your state's laws and rules. Know your law and rules inside out.

I would suggest that you then have a clear discussion with him, in private, about the law and ethics of what he is doing. If he has made statements that indicate he doesn't have a good handle on what he's doing, bring those up to him. Explain to him what can happen if he makes a "design" error (e.g. life safety), what his liability exposure might be (unlimited....all assets on the line), and that as a licensed professional he could be held criminally liable for his actions in the event of a failure.

Tell him that if he continues to do work such as this you will have no option but to report him, as you take the profession and your state's laws seriously, and your state law requires that you report such activity.

Good luck....this is never easy.

 

[beej67]

Ron -

I have to fill out a form once per year telling my insurer what sort of projects I'm doing, and for whom. Doesn't this guy have to do the same thing?

Hydrology, Drainage Analysis, Flood Studies, and Complex Stormwater Litigation for Atlanta and the South East -

http://www.campbellcivil.com

 

[MiketheEngineer]

Most states say the won't accept anonymous reports - but I have found that they usually follow up any way!!!