PE registration 11

[JPAULI167]

Does anyone know which state has the lowest standards for education requirements to qualify for PE license?

 

[Ron]

To my knowledge, all US states require graduation from an ABET accredited college, an internship of at least 3 years, and at least two exams.

Check the NCEES website....you might find more info.

If you get licensed in a state with lower standards, other states will typically not accept that licensing.

 

[TheTick]

Wisconsin has a path to PE withut a degree, but the experience requirements are much higher. Also, non-degreed candidates must pass both FE and PE.

 

[rbulsara]

You still need to have the PE license of the state(s) you want practice in so why not start there?. Unless you intend to move to another state.

 

[sundale]

I know a guy who has a two year Associate's degree in engineering technology and he will be sitting for the FE via the Colorado PE Board this April. Colorado will let you be a PE with 12 years of engineering experience (including education) and passing the FE and PE exams. Colorado has a fairly "low bar" in terms of university education to be a PE. Most state PE Board's that I am aware of require at least a four year Bachelor's degree in a related subject.

I disagree with licensing an individual as a Professional Engineer if they do not even have a related Bachelor's degree. An Associate's degree (or no degree) is perhaps appropriate for the licensing of Real Estate Agents but not for Professional Engineers! One has to wonder how the NCEES "Master's or Equivalent" stuff will actually (if ever) be implemented by various state PE Boards and legislatures in light of existing laws like this...

 

[drawoh]

sundale,

I know someone who was licensed as a PE in Ontario, Canada with a three year diploma. My understanding is that he took a lot of extra courses, so his training was equivalent to a degree, even if he did not have the piece of paper.

JHG

 

[swertel]

That stupid piece of paper, makes a big difference. Too bad there isn't a better way to judge one's abilities other than with credentials.

--Scott

http://wertel.eng.pro

 

[GregLocock]

If the technical questions on your two little tests don't establish academic credibility in lieu of that provided by a degree then one might wonder what they are for?



Cheers

Greg Locock

SIGlease see FAQ731-376 for tips on how to make the best use of Eng-Tips.

 

[drawoh]

swertel,

They did license him, without the degree. The degree indicates a minimum level of knowledge. He demonstrated the minimum level of knowledge by some other means.

When I got certified as a technologist, I was asked for a transcript of my marks, so it was not just the diploma. My $50 PhD from Billy Bob and cuzzin Elmo's college would not have worked.

There was an article in Harper's magazine many years ago, about SAT testing in the USA. They pointed out that American high school graduates are much better at multiple choice tests than Europeans, because they do so many of them. The inaccuracy of IQ tests is well documented.

Someone wrote to the editor pointing out that the alternative is to systematically recruit people from ivy league schools and other good ol' boy networks, which winds up being even more elitist. A person from a working class family or some other undesirable cultural/racial minority at least has the chance to work hard and ace the test, or pass the course.

JHG

 

[rbulsara]

Still the states, which require a degree will not issue PE license to those who do not have degrees, regardless of whether they have PE license in another state.

So assuming Sundale's post is correct, getting Colorado PE will only be good there, not necessarily elsewhere.

 

[sundale]

Passing the FE, PE and perhaps SE exams does not mean that you are a good engineer and it is not the crowning achievement of your career. All it means that you were able to pass an 8 hour test on a given subject matter on a given day and that you are PROBABLY not a terrible engineer.

In the real world, you do not get credit for designing a building column that is 83% correct; these FE/PE/SE tests are not a good measurement of one's real world engineering skills. On the contrary, the FE/PE/SE tests are INDICATIVE of one's technical knowledge and they are also a fair measurement because everyone has to pass the same tests to get licensed.

Passing these FE, PE and perhaps SE tests simply formally demonstrates that you possess "entry level technical competence" in order to practice engineering and offer your expertise to the public as a consulting engineer, which requires licensure as a Professional Engineer. There are many very talented engineers who are not licensed PE's that work in exempt industries and there are also some really bad consulting engineers who managed to get licensed and somehow stay licensed...

Sucessfully passing FE/PE/SE tests (fortunately) cannot be seen a SUBSTITUTE for holding at least a Bachelor's degree in engineering or a related subject in most states in the USA. How "professional" is the engineering profession in the eyes of the public if non-degreed individuals can become licensed Professional Engineers? We engineers constantly whine about the lack of respect our professional gets in comparison to say doctors or lawyers. How would you feel if you learned that your doctor never actually graduated from eight years of medical school, but was able to successfully pass his/her medical board exams and get a medical licensed anyway? There is no way this scenario would be acceptable to the public and this is one reason why doctors, in general, do get more respect and pay than engineers.

As a structural engineer, I have the potential to hurt or kill FAR MORE people than any doctor has ever dreamed! This same statement would also potentially apply example, for example, to an unlicensed engineer who designs a faulty aircraft braking system...

 

[rbulsara]

sundale:

What is the purpose of your last post? It has nothing to do with OP's question or anyone else's response.

 

[KENAT]

"to an unlicensed engineer who designs a faulty aircraft braking system... "

I suspect many engineers that design aircraft & aircraft related components are unlicensed, since aerospace is generally an exempt industry. At least in CA there isn't even an 'aerospace/aeronautical' PE anyway.

The subject of not being an Engineer without bachelors &/or degree has been done to death a bunch of times on this site and really doesn't need doing again. My own views on the matter are well known and oft lamented facts of Eng-Tips history (to plagerize Cyrus the Virus).

KENAT,

Have you reminded yourself of faq731-376 recently, or taken a look at posting policies:

http://eng-tips.com/market.cfm?

 

[msquared48]

The one that has the most problems getting comity to the other 49...

Mike McCann
MMC Engineering

 

[JPAULI167]

msquared48's post is right on. My question is not to bring up an argument of how the licensing process is flawed but rather the simple question of which of the 50 states has the most trouble with comity to the other 49 states?

 

[Kiljoy]

JPAULI167,

It's probabaly a difficult question to answer without researching all 50 states' requirements. I would HOPE they all had similar tests and standards. I would guess that the work experience credit standards may be different.
One question you may wish to ask is about reciprocity to other states. Which states readily accept PE licenses from other states? It would appear that you have 50 websites to searh for... Are there PE tests in Guam, Puerto Rico, and the US virgin Islands?

 

[rbulsara]

Visit

http://www.ncees.org

as Ron suggested in the very first response. They have all the info on reciprocity (licensing through comity) of PE licensing and what states accepts what from other states boards, etc. In fact if you seek to get licenses in multuple states, you will do well to set up a "record" with NCEES.

You need to visit that site to know more.

 

[PJones]

The very question sends shivers down my spine! Why are you shooting for the LOWEST standards?

I've known many old-school engineers who were registered without degrees. They all had 20-30 years experience designing machines, and they all started as drafters. All would pass the current PE exams, because they were good engineers and they would prepare for the test.

 

[metengr]

sundale;

Passing the FE, PE and perhaps SE exams does not mean that you are a good engineer and it is not the crowning achievement of your career. All it means that you were able to pass an 8 hour test on a given subject matter on a given day and that you are PROBABLY not a terrible engineer.

The above is a completely misguided and uninformed statement.

 

[TheTick]

Please elaborate, met.