PE Signature

[mark1234]

For all the liscensed PE's, it is my understanding that using P.E. following your signature is typical. If a letter that will be sent to a state outside of your liscense, is it still acceptable to sign your name with the P.E. following? These are letters to clients, builders, etc. that are not to be sealed.

Thanks in advance.

 

[jjeng2]

I'm sure it varies state to state but I have seen disciplinary action taken against someone licenced in several states who used PE after their name in a state they werent licenced in. I remember it because I thought it was a bit harsh. I dont remember the state. Probably Florida or NJ. Most states have their statutes online. If not call the state PE board and find out what the regulations are.

 

[BigH]

I would use, say, John Smith, P.E. (ME).

 

[Qshake]

This was a big issue in our firm. Our firm is also quite large and consequently we do work out of our home state.

So a memo ensued naturally and noted that we were to be sensitive to this issue. I asked one company lawyer who indicated that if I've been signing my letters with the P.E., S.E. for so long that I shouldn't worry about it. So I don't.

Others in our firm have taken to including pertinent states in thier signatory blocks. For example: P.E. (ME, CA, WA), S.E. (CA, IL, NV). I for one don't have the temperment nor the paper space for all such nonsense.

I feel as though, the intent is being misunderstood. If you are vying for work in a certain state and wish the client know you're licensed/registered that's one thing. If, however, your intent to let your reader know that you possess the minimum level requirements for licensure/registration that's quite another matter and shouldn't be a legal issue.

So long as PEs aren't misrepresenting themselves as SEs, Architects (RA), RLS, RG, or other I don't think it should matter. I doubt seriously that the requirements vary such that a PE in OK would have trouble obtaining a PE in RI.

And yes, I'm well aware that CA requires a special PE session on surveying/seismic.



Regards,
Qshake

Eng-Tips Forums:Real Solutions for Real Problems Really Quick.

 

[JStephen]

The problem is this: My home state, where I'm registered, REQUIRES me to use "P.E." after my name (it's not just typical or custom, requirement of the engineering laws). But if I'm writing a letter to someone in a state where I'm not registered, that usage would be misleading to them. So I'll sign my name there as:

John Doe
Texas PE #xxxxx

I've not heard of this being an issue with anyone, just one of those inconsistencies of varying state laws.

But then again, I never have figured out how you could practice engineering in a state without ever being there.

 

[mark1234]

Thank you all for your responses.

I also have been asked by a supervisor to list the state of my license when writing to clients.

JStephen, I know Texas is a big state but... not being able to practice engineering in another state??

 

[bridgebuster]

In my homestate, Pennsylvania, you cannot call yourself a PE unless you're registered here. The other 49 states don't count.

 

[Ron]

Almost all states have a clause in their statutes that considers any term denoting "Engineer" or "Professional Engineer" as protected (Including "P.E."). They further preclude the use of the terminology unless you are licensed in the state and you might be subject to disciplinary action.

If you are not licensed in a state that wants to stop you, typically the most they can do is write you a nasty-gram.

Like Qshake, most of us routinely use our titles anyway.

 

[JStephen]

What I meant was, that I can "practice engineering" in North Dakota without ever having set foot in North Dakota. Which just seems a bizarre concept to me. Kind of like saying that if a Texas doctor operates on an Okie patient in Texas, he needs a license from Oklahoma to do it. Or that I need a New Jersey driver's license to drive a New Jersey car in Texas.

 

[Ron]

JStephen...that part of it is a bit strange and that's why there has been a push for more uniformity in the laws and even a national registration. National registration has been resisted by state boards for obvious loss of revenue and control reasons. The structure is already in place to provide national registration (NCEES)and could be done.

One main reason for not doing it is the preponderance of local codes and conditions that each engineer who designs under them is responsible for compliance. Couple that with the litigious nature of design and construction, and you have plenty of work for the lawyers.

 

[connect2]

Right Licenced where I guess ??, you'd have to look at your seal and see if it has a geographic descriptor, if your not licenced in a jurisdiction then your plainly not licenced and if you use P.Eng/P.E. where you have no licence or authority to practice well you've plainly mislead the 'Public'.

 

[Qshake]

Connect2, you've hit the nail on the head here. If you practice engineering in a state or jurisdiction which you don't have current license or registration you should be subject to some disciplinary action by that state's authority.

As I've noted above, If you are corresponding about work in another state or jurisdiction, repsonding to questions of a general nature in pursuit of work, but not having done work, it shouldn't matter what suffixes are used.

This only becomes an issue if you seal a report, study, shop drawings, temporary works, plans, etc in a jursidiction you're not licensed/registered in. And if you're at all ethical you wouldn't do that anyway.



Regards,
Qshake

Eng-Tips Forums:Real Solutions for Real Problems Really Quick.

 

[BigH]

Qshake et al. The main drawback of the licensing state by state is that, especially in the east, you are so "close" to many number of states and your company - even if considered local -likely markets to all do the exceedingly close proximity (e.g., NJ,PA,DE,NY,MD). The states should set up a regional licensing so that, say, a PE in NJ (e.g., a geotechnical engineer) can write/sign a geotechnical report across the river in Philly). You know, it really is a pain to make 8 applications to 8 different states. In large states or provinces, it is likely that local firms do very little business outside their area.
I think that this is something that is imperative to address.

 

[JAE]

Nevada is a state where you cannot describe yourself as an engineer in marketing efforts if you aren't licensed in that state. So if you put PE after your name, and even simply propose to do the work on a project without the Nevada PE, they will go after you....first hand experience with that I can attest.

I'm sure there are other states similar as well, but Nevada is the most restrictive in that sense that I've encountered (based on 21 states where I'm licensed).

What I do is ensure that anything SENT out to a particular location is reviewed as to whether I can put PE or SE after my name...usually, most, if not all or 99% of our correspondence deals with sites and states where I'm already licensed. For things like generic brochures or proposals with resumes included, the PE is a fact that is stated in the resume with regard to which states.

For our "static" website, we include the PE's because they aren't technically "sent out" to anyone.

We try to be careful in states like Nevada, but overall, this usually isn't a huge issue with most states...at the most you'd get a letter or phone call reprimanding you but this isn't typical.

 

[bridgebuster]

There's an ambiguity in the Pennsylvania law. It's clear that one cannot claim to be a PE unless licensed in the Commonwealth. Here's the confusion: If for instance, an unlicensed engineer residing in PA were to attend a township planning board meeting as a private citizen and offered an engineering opinion about a matter before the board he could be reprimanded for practicing engineering without a license.

I agree with QShake and hopefully someone wouldn't be reprimanded in that situation, but the law is unclear.

 

[MotorCity]

Here's my two cents:

First, it should be noted that you do not have to be an engineer at all to propose or market engineering work in any state. However, if you are a licensed engineer doing so, you should indicate the state(s) you are licensed in so as not to mislead readers.

Second, I think too much emphasis is placed on state boundaries when it comes to licensing jurisdictions. My point is that the laws of science and engineering are no different once you cross a state line.

 

[JAE]

MotorCity - See my post above - Nevada (and some other states which I can't recall right now) do indeed required the license to propose or market engineering.

Go call up Nevada's board if you don't believe me.

(775) 688-1231

http://www.boe.state.nv.us

Here's an excerpt from the Nevada law:

NRS 625.520 Unlawful practice of engineering: Penalty; injunctive relief.

1. Except as otherwise provided in subsection 4, it is unlawful for:
(a) Any person not properly licensed or exempted in
accordance with the provisions of this chapter
to:
(1) Practice, continue to
practice,solicit to practice, offer to
practice or attempt to practice engineering
or any discipline thereof;
(b) Any professional engineer to practice or offer
to practice a discipline of professional
engineering in which the Board has not qualified
him.

 

[JStephen]

As far as I know, most states do require an engineering license to offer engineering work in a state, not just to do it. And I think it's the same way for doctors, lawyers, whatever.

 

[connect2]

Bridgebuster, your never Joe Q. Public when offering an opinion for which the real Joe Q. Public may percieve you to be 'professional, knowledgeable, informed and capable'. It's called tort. and besides why would you be providing unsolicited advisement, or worse yet questioning perhaps another practioner in a public forum ... especially if your not licenced there... ie your example above wrt. the planning board...there's much better and more Professional ways to pursue these issues than at an open 'Public' forum. Clearly if i was the planner or the consultants wrt to the planning meeting you reference i would have a problem with you, especially if you weren't licenced, ... but i would still extend you my Professional courtesy by meeting with you after ...to discuss and inform. I believe the law is clear in your example.

 

[MotorCity]

Ok, easy JAE.

If that is indeed the case please excuse my ignorance. I have encountered situations in dealing with numerous states where a marketing director or similar position has submitted proposals on behalf of a company that is owned and operated by licensed architects but also has licensed engineers on staff. In that case although an architect is obviously not an licensed engineer, he or she would have the resources to provide such services. Again, if such a case does not apply in the state of Nevada, I stand corrected.