PE: Structural I or Civil?

[cedent]

I took the structural I PE exam in October and did not pass. Although I feel like I was fairly prepared I was overwhelmed with the time factor. I felt as if I needed a different code book or text book for each problem. Texts where flying everywhere! I also felt like the exam writers seemed to focus on some odd (out of the mainstream) topics. I did not feel confident when I left, but I don't know who would after that eight hour exam.

My boss suggested that I take the civil test with the structural afternoon session. We had heard that the abbreviated section was more focused on basics and less focused on some of the obscure topics. I know these topics are not obscure to everyone, but at our firm we do not practice bridge design or pre-cast design (for example).

My undergraduate degree is mechanical... and I have been working for this structural firm since I was a sophmore in college.

My advisor seems to think I can 'pick up' the hydrology, traffic, and environmental portions of the morning civil exam.

Has anyone taken this civil exam that might have some thoughts?

Thank you in advance for your time and help.

 

[cvg]

you may be able to "pick up" these other subjects, but not without significant study as well as more reference books to bring along. I would work a lot harder so that you are very confident going in to the next test, not just "fairly prepared". This is very important to your career as well as your pocket book. Plan to put in all the effort it requires, which is probably more than you realize, so you can go in there, be confident and pass the test next time around.

 

[COEngineeer]

cedent, did you buy a PE study guide and exam samples? That should cover everything like hydrolgy, traffic, environmental science, structural, geo technical etc. I think if you really do read the whole book and take all the practice exams, you should pass the exam. I have not taken the exam yet but thats my plan!

 

[cedent]

Thank you for your comments. I did purchase review books for the structural exam. We have some civil review books around the office that I can look at.

I did several Kaplan Review books for the structural exam and I felt as if the Kaplan books focused on entirely different subjects. The basic structural review manual focused heavily on the building system as a whole, lateral loads (development, application, and resisting systems), and seismic content.

Compared to what I had heard, I thought the seismic content on the test I took was low. I almost felt as if I would have been better prepared for the structural II.

COEngineeer, if you haven't taken the test yet I would recommend that you get a review book that is representative of the actual question format as well as something like the Kaplan. I did not work enough problems in the multiple choice format. I will either purchase the 6 min. solutions or the NCEES sample problem book this time.

 

[COEngineeer]

I just submitted my application and they might not approve it. As soon as I find out I can take it, I will start studying.

 

[SlideRuleEra]

cedent - I have taught a review course to prepare candidates for the PE Civil (Structural) exam. Some took the Structural I exam instead. Unless you plan to take the Structural II exam at some time in the future, I suggest taking your boss's advice.

The afternoon problems on PE Civil (Structural) more general and, therefore, a little easier than Structural I problems.

The morning problems for PE Civil are are straightforward. The important thing is to study the basics of the five subjects covered in the morning. Whether you do this yourself (with a good study guide), or by taking a course is not too important - just do so, over a period of time - not just "cramming" in last few days.

http://www.SlideRuleEra.net

 

[swivel63]

if you're a structural engineer, take the structural 1. eventually, you might want the structural 2, and i don't think you can take that without the structural 1. besides, you'll be spending time having to relearn a bunch of stuff you'll never use if you're a structural engineer.

besides, it'll put some hair on your chest

LOL

 

[whyun]

If you pass the Structural I, are you a "Structural Engineer" in the state where you registered for the exam?

If not, are you a "Structural Engineer" when you pass the Structural II?

These seem to be relatively recent developments and I haven't kept up. In California, Civil license and three years of experience with a licensed SE are prerequisite to sit for the SE exam. The SE exam has two parts, one is the national portion (NCEES) which I presume is equivalent to Structural II and the state portion which appears to be informally called Structural III.

 

[cedent]

SlideRuleEra,

Thanks for the advice. I have read many of your posts and you tend to make 'good sense.' I checked out the cable text on your site recently as well. It is a good reference.

I work for a former professor of mine... and I work with former classmates as well. Everyone told me many times that they had 100% confidence in me. I didn't agree, but it sure led up to a let down for everyone. I need to pass a PE test so that I can go back to finishing my master's degree in my 'free time'. I have already taken one semester off to study.

Swivel63,

I haven't yet decided what I will do. I feel like I could PROBABLY pass the structural I if I took it again. NCEES doesn't tell you what passing is, but I have a breakdown and I know that my weak points are concrete and masonry... mostly b/c they take me more time.

I don't want any hair on my chest, it would not look good with my two-piece swim suit.

Although I don't practice in a state where Structural I and Structural II, are a requirement... I would like to have the flexibility. Who knows, I may continue to torture myself and take both.

Thanks all.

 

[cvg]

in addition, California Civil also requires the special seismic exam which is basically Structural Part A...

 

[HgTX]

If you're planning on working in states that have separate SE licenses, you really do need the Structural I. But watch out--I thought I saw some states on the list that required the Civil exam first.

If you're going to take the Civil, I recommend getting the review CD-ROM from ppi2pass (in addition to the famous Lindeburg book). It covers the four non-structural discplines pretty well--as a review. I remembered nothing of my hyrdaulics, geotech, environmental, or transportation classes before I sat down with the CD-ROM, and a few days later had it all down pretty well. But I have no idea how well that would work for someone who'd never actually had any of those classes.

Another thing to keep in mind--if all your boss wants is for you to have the PE, you might not even have to take the structural afternoon portion (again, check your state's requirements in case you want to take the Structural I/II exam later). You may find some of the other stuff is easier once you look at it.

Hg

Eng-Tips policies: faq731-376

 

[DonPhillips]

I used the Lindburg book, worked every problem from cover to cover and felt I could pass any of the civil exams. I ended up taking the structural option and passed. ppi2pass is an excellent resource and I recommend their advise to pass.

Don Phillips

http://worthingtonengineering.com

 

[swivel63]

i think the structural 1 gets people mentally, because it is a pretty tough test. i mean....it can't be too easy since less than 50 percent pass it. like i said, if you're structural....take the S1. you've already seen it, you have an idea of the format, you know what you're up against instead of going against a monster you've never seen before....and just have to review instead of relearn or learn from scratch.

my state doesn't require the S1 to practice structural...but the flexibility of it is an added bonus for obvious reasons.

these tests don't really test your abilities or knowledge.....they just test how much crap you can fit in your brain in a few months....because lord knows i'll never use some of the stuff i had to learn.

i think there are products like nair if you want to remove that chest hair the S1 puts on you, lol.

 

[swivel63]

remind me to never work in states where there are like 5000 tests i have to take to get registered. geez, can i have a weekend and a beer?

 

[lkjh345]

Cendent:

For what its worth, I have passed both the Civil and the Structural I test.

I found the civil test to be much easier, even though I have worked my whole career as a structural engineer on building type project. 'Picking up' enough surveying, open channel flow, retaining walls, geotech, etc to pass the Civil test is , surprisingly, not all that difficult.

If your only goal is to get PE stamp so you can call yourself a PE, this is probably the EASIER way to go actually.

( I guess that speaks volumes about using an 8 hour test as qualification for a PE, but that is a whole different subject. )

If you goal is to practice as a structural engineer for the rest of your career, then I agree with most of the other posters here. It is best to take Structural I exam and to plan on taking the Structural II exam in the future.

I fully agree with Swivel63. The test really have nothing to do with the practice of structural engineering. That may have been part of the reason you had difficulty. You were expecting something that tested you qualifications to practice structural engineering and protect the public with realistic problems that are encountered on a day to day basis in the profession. Instead you found out the test had nothing to do with that, and was put together by a group out to prove how clever they were in digging up obscure topics.

 

[rholder98]

Something else to consider: does your state list a designated discipline for you? May not mean much, but if you take the Civil exam, won't you be listed as a Civil PE, though your experience and expertise is Structural?

Yes, the test covers some pretty obscure topics, but I found myself a better engineer having studied for the exam and learned some new stuff--much of which I ended up using later. I still haven't designed any bridges (and don't really plan to), but I do occasionally sprinkle in terms like "AASHTO" and "HS20-44" into everyday conversations. . . .

 

[cedent]

Georgia does not license disciplines seperately at this time. Thank you all for the great responses.

I think it will come down to either flipping a coin... or determining what sort of hoops I have to jump through with the state board to take a different exam.

 

[archeng59]

I have a degree in architectural engineering (structural) and worked as a structural engineer intern before taking the Structural I exam. I studied the sample exam available from NCEES to get a feel for the questions format and studied the AASHTO sections since I did not work on bridges. All that being said, I found the exam to be very much related to the work I did as an intern. Luckily, I worked for a structural engineer that allowed me to work on projects involving steel, concrete, masonry and wood. The questions I had problems with were those requiring hand calcs that I had performed using software in the office. Remembering how to do the hand calcs slowed me down. I passed the test on the first attempt. I am licensed in Oklahoma as a PE not an SE.

 

[JStephen]

Have you considered just getting your PE in ME?

Seems easier to go back and pick up something you were once thoroughly familiar with than to start on something new.

Also, check into which states you will ultimately need to be licensed- as in CA, for example, you need a CE degree, regardless of how many tests you take.

 

[jimaitken]

Cedent

Although Georgia does not require separate disciplines at this time, it may in the future. You also do not know where you may be asked to perform work at some point in your career.

I agree with those who recommend sticking w/ the Structural I exam. It is a difficult exam, but it covers the breadth of what you should know as a structural engineer and unless you practice the items on the civil PE exam on a regular basis, you would be misrepresenting yourself as a Professional Structural Engineer. You have to ask yourself if in your pursuit of your PE license you are behaving ethically. I know engineers that have become PEs by taking advantage of the fact that there is no discipline listed on thier state's PE stamp and taken the civil exam instead of the structural I because they know they can pass the civil exam but are afraid they may not pass the structural I. In my opinion this is not ethical behavior.

You should not be afraid to fail this exam, just learn from this experience. Going into the next exam know your strengths and focus on the parts of the exam you had trouble with the first time and go at it again. Work on your speed, remember with 80 questions you only have 5 minutes per question. The solution is designed to be reached in this time peroid. If you don't know how to solve it in the first minute move on. Get the NCEES structural exam practice test from NCEES or ppi2pass.com and study the exam.

I know from personal experience what you are going through. I am a bridge engineer and when I took the exam the first time I was definately not prepared. Masonry timber, wind loads, snow loads and building design terminology were not things I dealt with regularly and I got creamed. When I recovered and began to study again I got some good references and study problems for these subjects and took the exam again. This time the exam had become the multiple chioce for AM and PM sessions and the questions were shorter, but I had not prepared for the intensity of the seismic questions and unfortunately missed passing by 1 point. I studied very hard to pass the third time and used my previous experiences as my study guide. The third time was the charm and I passed.

The point of my rambling is that you have to stick with it. The easy path is not necessarily the one you should choose. I have heard the quote "Nothing really worth having comes quickly and easily;
If it did, I doubt that we would ever grow. (Eknath Easwaran)" Consider this when making your decision.

Good Luck

Jim