PE: When is one needed? 1

[M98Ranger]

I was hoping that some who are practicing PEs could help me to understand in a general sense when a PE endorsement is needed. I am a Mechanical Engineer. I have a couple years of experience working for the DOT & Public Facilities as a Project Engineer. I also have some time working as a Project Engineer doing Materials Handling design and miscellaneous associated design and calculations for structure and foundations.

I am starting a new venture where I am the only engineer and am going to be called on to help with all sorts of tasks, from building design, to construction, to machine design/manufacture of an automatic loader/unloader system for a trailer. Some general ideas or some information on where to go in order to have a good idea of where to venture without a PE would be appreciated.

 

[Ron]

Let's start with a few assumptions:

You are located in the US (as guessed from the use of the term "PE" as opposed to other terms, and from your syntax)

You have a degree in engineering, presumably "Mechanical" from your handle category...

In the US, if you provide engineering services to the public at large...meaning a private engineer on public or private projects...you must be licensed as a Professional Engineer. Further, most states limit your practice area to a stated or proven "area of competence". In many states, you must be licensed by your discipline and you are not allowed to practice outside the discipline except under certain conditions.

As an example, in some states you cannot be a mechanical engineer and provide civil, electrical, structural or other engineering services. You must prove competence in each area of practice. Let's assume you wanted to do structural design of a mid-rise office building, but you are licensed as a mechanical engineer in that particular state. You must prove your experience and ability to design such structures through a separate examination and licensing process (obtaining an SE license for instance) or document your experience, training and competence in such structural design (for states not requiring discipline licensing) so that in the event of a complaint, you would not be adjudged negligent or incompetent to practice in that area.

If you do not already have a PE license, you are looking at a miniumum of 6 months to apply, take the exam and get results. How do you plan to run provide services in the interim?

 

[msquared48]

In general, you do not need to have your PE when working on Tribal projects, or projects on Federal lands. There can be exceptions though specific to that project.

That does not mean though that they would not ask you if you did have your PE. It only means that you would not have to stamp the project. Big difference.

Mike McCann
MMC Engineering

http://mmcengineering.tripod.com

 

[M98Ranger]

I have a BSME and EIT credentials. As I understand it the manufacturing industry is exempt to require PEs for engineering and research and development in connection with the manufacture of products. My analysis above is likely too simplistic though. Let me give you an example of what I am doing, though I can't go into too much detail because of proprietary considerations.

For instance, if I lead the design and manufacture of some agricultural equipment specified to allow loading and unloading of materials by means of a conveyor or moving 'faux wall'how can I know if am legally and ethically bound to seek counsel from a PE?

I do understand the expectations of a licensed engineer as described by the previous engineer (thanks by the way). I guess I don't quite understand my responsibilities as an unlicensed engineer working for a start-up company. By accepting a job from a start-up company where I will be the Design and Manufacturing Engineer, I am not violating any laws initially, correct? I assume that I can recommend contracting out work that needs to be verified by a PE, but in order to do that I need to understand where that line is being crossed.

This is such a nebulous area for me. It doesn't seem like there are any hard litmus tests to go on. I am wanting to hear several opinions that are based on experience and good sound logic. Obviously if you give your logical opinion on a forum like this, you are not going to be litigated, so if you can spell things out for me I would appreciate it.

 

[Ron]

One test of whether YOU need to be licensed is whether your company needs to be licensed as an engineering entity. Usually if you are involved in the design and construction of products (with the exception of storage or habitable buildings), you are in an exempt industry. It sounds as though your venture is in that category.

Call the state board of engineers in your state and explain to them the products you will be designing and constructing. They will tell you if you are required to be licensed. Also check your competition. If they employ licensed engineers then you might need to do the same (if for no reason other than marketing your equivalence).

 

[M98Ranger]

Thanks everyone that explains everything I need to know.

 

[JStephen]

Google "state board engineers ___" with your state name, pull up your board of engineers, look around for the rules and laws, download them, and have a good look. There are similarities from state to state, but each state has a little different requirements.

As noted above, if you are designing a product for your own company to manufacture, that is usually exempt. But rules DO vary from state to state, so it's worth checking your specific state, and reading the rules pretty carefully.

If you have the involvement of an outside PE, look up the rules on that as well. In some states, a PE can review someone else's work and stamp it, but in a lot of states, that is prohibited.

 

[connectegr]

A "start up" company is not excluded, even temporarily, from the PE requirements. In addition to the PE requirements, your company may also need authorization to practice in a given state. For your conveyor example, I rarely see a PE seal for the mechanical portion of the project. But the supporting structure, foundations, etc generally require a seal from a civil/structural PE. Depending on the size or you projects you will also find that your E&O carrier will require that your services be provided with your area of expertise. This is also an ethical responsibility of a PE. The broader the work spectrum, the more liability and the more cost for coverage. And I advise honesty in this process. A quick path to personal bankruptcy is by finding lack of coverage after a claim. You can subcontract the civil/structural engineering to a licensed engineer and gain E&O coverage for the structural design, under their policy. This delegation of design responsibility is also acceptable for most municipal and state requirements.

http://www.FerrellEngineering.com

 

[MiketheEngineer]

If you can - get your PE - it will be invaluable - esp when you do/might need it