PhD through a company? 1

[gman89]

Hi everyone,

I'm just wondering if anyone ever had an opportunity to do an engineering PhD through a company? To be more specific, something along the lines of working with the company in some area of research and development in combination with an academic side.

I'm asking just to gain some perspective on how rare this is, or how difficult it is to obtain such an arrangement since I've become interested in doing a PhD and am assessing my options.

 

[IRstuff]

It's rare but not completely unusual. We have a guy at work doing is PhD on solid state physics, and some guys getting masters. However, it's generally the purview of relatively large companies. Note also, that while the company may offer time off and financial aid, you're going to be doing two full-time things at the same time, so the finish-date will have to give way.

TTFN
faq731-376

 

[dvd]

Sounds more like a research project for a Doctor of Engineering degree than for a Doctor of Philosophy degree in Engineering.

 

[MiketheEngineer]

Sounds like a lot of work BUT if company helps out financially - you might be silly not go for it. You will probably NOT work there the rest of your life!!

 

[MintJulep]

If you are already working for a company that has a suitable education benefit, take advantage of it if you qualify.

However, as a job search strategy a cover letter along the lines of "Dear Sir or Madam; I'd like to start working for your company and have you pay for my PhD" seems unlikely to be successful.

A better starting point might be to search for universities that have partnerships with industries already established.

 

[ctopher]

If it's something you really want to do, do it. You may regret it personally later if you don't.
Otherwise, comments here are good guides.

Chris
SolidWorks 11
ctopher's home
SolidWorks Legion

 

[lacajun]

I've met two who were requested by their employers to pursue the Ph.D. at the company's expense, 100%, to help with R&D. All they had to do was pursue the Ph.D. then work for the company upon graduation. That is very rare and you have to be outstanding to be asked.

Otherwise, you can do it on your own through the company's reimbursement program. I've never met anyone who did that. I've met a few who got the master's that way.

In my experience, they're all fairly rare.

It won't hurt anything to investigate your options. You may be pleasantly surprised.

Pamela K. Quillin, P.E.
Quillin Engineering, LLC

 

[Maui]

I've only known one individual who earned his Ph.D. through such a program. If you are single, and have no significant obligations outside of work then it can be a good way to further your education, especially since the employer is paying for it. But it is rare, and with the cost cutting measures that companies are continuing to enforce I doubt very much that you will see this type of benefit become more readily available down the road. If you find it available and want to pursue it, it would be in your best interest to take advantage of it while it is available.

Keep in mind that most employers have certain requirements that must be met. These may include the stipulation that the grade you earn must be at least a "B" in each class, and you may also be required to work for the company for a specific number of years after earning the degree so that they have the opportunity to recoup some of the expense of paying for your education. Failure to satisfy these requirements may result in a significant financial burden for you, since the company may refuse to cover part (or all) of your education costs as a result.

If you have a family or other significant obligations outside of work, then this will be a challenge to say the least. You will be at it for the better part of a decade and will have very little spare time outside of work to do anything else. I earned my Ph.D. by going straight through college before I started working and averaged approximately 60 hours per week for a period of almost 5 years just to earn the degree. Can you imagine that work load on top of a full time job, and having a family to care for at the same time? You should take a long hard look at the potential benefits and the potential downside to having the degree (yes, there is a [italic]very[/italic] significant downside to earning a Ph.D. in industry). Don't commit yourself to this endeavor unless you are very confident that it is the right thing for you.

Maui

http://www.EngineeringMetallurgy.com

 

[fegenbush]

Maui,

Would you care to elaborate on the significant downside to earning a Ph.D. in industry? I am not attempting to be contrary, but would like to get firsthand information from someone who has walked that road.

 

[TomDOT]

One anecdote: Apparently a PhD was an interview candidate for the position I hold now. I don't have a PhD, and I do have the job.

 

[Maui]

TomDOT hinted at one of the downsides. The Ph.D. degree will very likely close more doors for you than it will open in industry. You will have a difficult time finding your next job because you will be overqualified for the vast majority of positions that are available in industry today. This is especially true if you are relatively young. Employers will be reluctant to hire you because they are afraid of a number of different possibilities:

1.) You may become disillusioned with the job because it isn't challenging enough. This will prompt you to look for another job, and they will have to go through the process of filling this position again after a short time. HR won't want to do that.

2.) You won't be happy with the salary that they are able to pay for the position. After getting some time on the job you may look for a better paying position, putting HR back in the role of filling your current job.

3.) They simply don't need (and may not want) someone with your advanced skill set. Being more qualified than the person you report to is an issue for some managers (and for some employees).

4.) You may not fit in with others in the organization if you're the only one who has a Ph.D.

Note that I didn't say that I agree with any of the above, but that these are the things that many employers may be concerned about in hiring a Ph.D. Unless the job description specifically requires a Ph.D., more often than not the candidate with the bachelor's degree or the master's degree will win out, as confirmed in the case of TomDOT.

The Ph.D. degree can become useful later on in your career as you advance up the corporate chain. Many advanced positions may even require it as a minimum credential. But it can be a distinct disadvantage having it at a relatively young age. You may be better served earning a Master's degree instead if you decide to stay in industry. My 2 cents.

Maui

http://www.EngineeringMetallurgy.com

 

[lacajun]

I've noted the same things happening to BS only engineers, too. Life is not static nor should it be.

Pamela K. Quillin, P.E.
Quillin Engineering, LLC

 

[gman89]

Sorry for not replying for so long, was in the middle of nowhere for work for a week.

I'm kind of hoping that I could maybe do it in the automotive industry. I think researching which universities have collaborations with company's as mentioned by MintJulep is a good idea. But apart from that it's proving hard to make steps towards this.

As far as the PhD disadvantages goes, one of the reasons why I wanted to do it was so I COULD actually do something highly technical at some point in my life. For me, doing this is beyond just 'having a job' to provide a means to an ends. I'm also 1 year out of university and don't have a family. I'm finding that I enjoy reading technical things, and even do it in my spare time after work or on weekends anyway.

In addition, I think I would rather take longer to do the PhD and still get some sort of remuneration by working for said company than basically be a broke student again for a couple of years. Not sure how much bargaining power I have here but again, if such an avenue is available I'd like to think I maximized my chances of getting it.

 

[GregLocock]

I've been pretty close to doing what you want a couple of times (ie working at a uni doing a PhD on a product development), but in both cases the university directed the research and hoped to commercialise it with an industrial partner, rather than the industrial partner taking the lead. I ended up not doing either one.

Frankly in the automotive industry these days I don't rate your chances for well paid blue sky research at a university. It does happen, but I think the bleeding edge stuff is behind closed doors.





Cheers

Greg Locock


New here? Try reading these, they might help FAQ731-376

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[TomDOT]

I see another pretty significant flaw in your reasoning: "a couple of years" - you almost certainly cannot complete a good PhD program in 2 years full time. That is in Masters territory.

 

[Maui]

And you would be very hard pressed to complete a master's degree in just two years time while holding down a full time job. I'd suggest talking with one or two individuals who you work with that earned their master's degree this way (if you can find any) to get an honest feel for what it's actually like. And I think that you may be surprised by the difficulties that they experienced in juggling work and academia to earn their degree.

I don't want to dissuade you from reaching for what you want in terms of your education. But you asked for the downside, and I'm providing you with my perspective in the most objective way that I am able to.

Maui

http://www.EngineeringMetallurgy.com

 

[gman89]

Thanks for the replies everyone,

I probably shouldn't of expected anyone to say that it would be easy. By a 'couple of years' I meant more around the 3-5 year mark though. I'm not completely discouraged yet though.

 

[lacajun]

I have been single for years and no kids. Like you, I enjoyed reading, in the evenings and weekends, and studying technical stuff and keeping up with what was going on in the instrumentation, controls, and control systems world. I loved the math, engineering, and technology behind all that stuff. My interest in that stuff changed over time for a lot of reasons and may for you; therefore, if you desire to do it, do it now.

I got a MS from Pitt while working full time at PPG Industries. It took me about 4 years to complete it. Some semesters I couldn't register due to work. I ended up having to really bust it the last year, which meant taking two courses during the summer, too, to complete it. It was a lot of work but I really enjoyed it. The job was very stressful so the master's program was a bright spot in my life.

I still think about getting a doctorate now and then but since I'm nearing old age, that doesn't make sense. If you have a strong desire to do it, do it. Find a prof doing research in areas that interest you and pursue that school and him/her with gusto.

Too many of us treat school as a means to an end thus end up in misery for most of our working years. It isn't about a job and being a warm body with a number in Corporate America. It's about pursuing your life's dreams and only you can do that.

Pamela K. Quillin, P.E.
Quillin Engineering, LLC