Physical Profiling of Employment Candidates

[plasgears]

During a meeting given by an FAA medical type many years ago, he mentioned physical profiling of flight candidates. Is there a similar thing in HR? I need a good book on the subject.

I heard a story of a recent hire in the service industry that went terribly wrong. A professional physical profiling of this candidate would have brought the interview to a screeching halt.(He had an accident with head injury, and that's just the tip of the iceberg.)

 

[Ashereng]

I am not sure what "physical profiling" is.

I know some jobs require a certain "physical" set of parameters to be met. Examples are police and fire personnel, who have to meet certain height and weight minimums. Although, I believe in recent times, that may have changed due to constitutionality and civil rights challenges.

Also, I believe the US navy has a maximum height restriction for submariners. I guess the boat is only so big.

Is this what you mean?

Outside of these specific jobs, is "physical profiling" even allowed to be used in hiring? Isn't that a form of discrimination? Or, am I missing something?

"Do not worry about your problems with mathematics, I assure you mine are far greater."
Albert Einstein
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[MadMango]

When we place adds for employment we include descriptions like "may be required to lift 50lb unassisted or up to 100lb with assistance". I think that may be related to physical profiling.

[green]"Art without engineering is dreaming; Engineering without art is calculating."[/green]
Steven K. Roberts, Technomad
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[bvanhiel]

MadMango,

Unless lifting 50lbs is a real requirement related to the job, I don't think it's legal in the US. It amounts to discrimination against those with a disability. Assuming you're in the US you can read the EEOC poster in the break room.

Physical profiling of pilots is directly related to the job. If they can't pass their physical, they can't legally fly. As long as it directly relates to the performance of duties you can use it as a filter. It's when you start making up duties, and are foolish enough to document them in a help wanted ad, that the lawsuits start.

-b

 

[MikeHalloran]

I can walk around freely in a submarine without banging my head on the overhead ... unless I'm wearing a hard hat, in which case, I bang into _everything_. The boat is indeed only so big.





Mike Halloran
Pembroke Pines, FL, USA

 

[PSE]

If certain physical requirements are considered Bona Fide Occupational Qualifications, then screening candidates is (I believe) considered legal and non-discriminatory. From my understanding, "unique" requirements must be listed in the actual job description and likely any posting for that position.

Regards,

 

[ornerynorsk]

Yes, the legalities are tricky here. If it's not a real physical requirement of the job, you could end up getting sued. Even if it is a real requirement, you'll have some over-anxious "empowered" individual come in and demand equal footing, even though they may not be qualified. Reminds me of girls wanting to join high school hockey and football teams. No offense, ladies, I'm just a bit old fashioned!

 

[Ashereng]

ornerynorsk,

Girls do play football with the guys. Colorado University had a female kicker.

Girls also wrestle with guys. I have read about it in SI for both high school and college levels. Don't know about the olympics and world level.

Girls play hockey with the guys. I have read about for high school, in the QMJHL and NHL exhibition.

Welcome to the new millenium norsk.

"Do not worry about your problems with mathematics, I assure you mine are far greater."
Albert Einstein
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[TheTick]

How about "Can you swim?". I've heard of this question being used to allegedly assess character. Some claim it is racist.

 

[ivymike]

(can you swim -> character or race) what an odd idea! I've only known two adults who I knew could not swim. Heck, some of the racists around here are probably most concerned with non-whites who got here by swimming!

 

[Ashereng]

I know lots of adults that can't swim.

That is why the local pool has adult learn to swim programs.

"Do not worry about your problems with mathematics, I assure you mine are far greater."
Albert Einstein
Have you read FAQ731-376 to make the best use of Eng-Tips Forums?

 

[TheTick]

My swim test experience in navy boot camp seems to reinforce the implications of swimming as a means of race profiling.

 

[Ashereng]

How would one relate race to swimming ability?



"Do not worry about your problems with mathematics, I assure you mine are far greater."
Albert Einstein
Have you read FAQ731-376 to make the best use of Eng-Tips Forums?

 

[MadMango]

In the USA, the majority of inner-city youths are minorities. Many inner-city youths do not have beaches, rivers, lakes or even pools to swim in or learn how to swim. Therefore the thinking goes "if you can't swim you ain't white".

[green]"Art without engineering is dreaming; Engineering without art is calculating."[/green]
Steven K. Roberts, Technomad
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[TheTick]

The one who brought this to my attention was my old boss, who is black. He was also a competitive swimmer in high school and college. Before that, I had heard of one company informally using swimming to gage candidates, but it was a boat equipment manufacturer, so there was some legitimacy to the qualification.

 

[MadMango]

We build equipment that can weigh up to 400lb. We require those in engineering to build the prototypes, hence the requirement that candidates be able to lift at least 50lb to handle the sub-assemblies.

[green]"Art without engineering is dreaming; Engineering without art is calculating."[/green]
Steven K. Roberts, Technomad
Have you read faq731-376 to make the best use of Eng-Tips Forums?

 

[ornerynorsk]

Hi there, Ashering. I dunno, kinda like the old millenium better. LOL. So what's your opinion on chivalry, is it dead or not? Should males be involved in physical contact sport with females? Sorry teen males, I am excluding you from answering this!

 

[ziggi]

plasgears may also be refering to the practice of facial profiling. ie. determining a person's character from their face. I'm not sure of its accuracy, but certain things do apply. For instance a person with crow's feet around the eyes and little else is most probably a happy, smiley person, meanwhile someone with pronounced lower facial muscles and deep creases along the lower part of their cheeks from their nostrils to their chin is probably an arrogant person (they purse their mouth). Other indicators of less accuracy (according to me), hair on the temples is said to indicate lower common sense and flared visible nostrils are said to indicate a problem with money. I managed to find a book on it called "The Naked Face", by Lailan Young.

As an aside physical behavoir as a reflection of character is well documented, ie. the way a person responds to other people (crossed arms as opposed to open arms / defensive as opposed to open and inviting)

 

[TheTick]

My dad told me when he graduated from college in Germany in the early 1950's, resumes and CV's were done in longhand. Many firms did not accept typed resumes, and also employed handwriting analysts amongst their personnel management.

 

[epoisses]

heh heh... well I guess Germany was 50 years ahead of France...
and yes, it appears that some french HR managers still use facial characteristics as a decision basis as ziggi wrote.