Pilot Co-Pilot

[rickpref]

Hello,

I am looking for some type of FAA documentation that clearly states that an FAA Form 8130-3 is not required on a Pilot/CoPilot Seat cushion...that as long as it has the Vertical Burn Test certification and MFG certs there is no need for an 8130-3. We have never had a problem with this issue until today. If anyone knows where I can find something to show the airline I would greatly appreciate it.

Thanks

 

[dgapilot]

There is no FAA publication or document that will state that. Likewise, there is no FAA publication or document that will state that an 8130-3 is required for anything other than export. 14CFR43.13 (b) states that you must use parts "of such a quality, that the condition of the aircraft, airframe, aircraft engine, propeller, or appliance worked on will be at least equal to its original or properly altered condition (with regard to aerodynamic function, structural strength, resistance to vibration and deterioration, and other qualities affecting airworthiness)." In short, it is the installers responsibility to insure that the part being installed is "Airworthy". Airworthy has 2 provisions, safe for flight, and meets type design or properly altered design. Seat coushions have to meet several criteria to meet type design. One aspect is the flamability requirements of 23.853, 25.853, CAR 3, or what ever cert basis the airplane falls under. The other criteria that most mechanics fail to understand is the crashworthiness requirements when dealing with Part 23 or Part 25 airplanes. In this case, the density, thickness, and a host of other properties come into play.

In short, just because it may pass the burn test, it still may not meet the "Airworthy" test. Most airlines want to see an 8130-3 for parts they procure. It gives them a warm and fuzzy feeling. Unless they specify in their Maintenance Manual required under 135 or 121 that all parts must have an 8130-3, there is no FAA requirement for it.

 

[AviatorJim]

I'll pile on to dgapilot's answer. There is another criteria you can use to establish that the cushion (or any other part) meets the original specification, and that is the vendor control drawing, or material specification in the parts manual. If it is a new seat cushion you are designing, then it is whatever the FSDO or MIDO wants before they approve it. The requirements of the 14 CFR 121 or 135 operator may also put additional requirements on it.
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If you are getting your cushion from somebody who does not hold a PMA, then they cannot issue an 8130. If it is incorporated into a larger assembly bt someone who holds a PMA, they may issue the 8130 for the larger assembly if it comforms to thier approved control process.
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If the manufacturer certs it as complying with a certain part number, TSO, or other applicable control document, that also meets the requirement.
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And it boils down to, if the customer wants an 8130, you need to find someone who can and will issue it.

 

[dgapilot]

Here's a letter of interpritation from FAA that relates to this:

http://www.faa.gov/about/office_org...terpretations/data/interps/2009/Dickstein.pdf

 

[dgapilot]

The OP didn't say if he was dealing with new cushions, or reapired items. An FAA 8130-3 has 3 basic purposes. The first and primary is for the export of engines, props, and other aircraft parts. The second and less understood purpose is as a domestic parts identification tag for new parts. The last is a return to service document folloing inspection or repair.

For new parts, thos parts need to be produced under an approved inspection system, either a Production Certificate, Parts Manufacturing Approval, or TSOA. In all three cases, you approved inspection system (14CFR21)dictates what documentation you will use when you deliver the parts. If the parts are to be exported, then the 8130-3 becomes a requirement for export.

For parts that are outside the approved production inspection system, 14CFR43 applies. Under part 43, more specifically 43.9 requires a maintenance record entry for approval for return to service. This could be on the proverbial "Yellow Tag", on an 8130-3, on a work order, or on a piece of toilet paper, so long as it contains the information required by 43.9. Order 8130-21 spells out the use of the 8130-3 in the FAAs eyes. Keep in mind that Orders are for the FAA and are not regulatory in nature. Just because Order 8130-21 says only a repair station can use the 8130-3 for return to service doen't make it so. A mechanic is reqquired to make a record entry with specific requirements (43.9) If an A&P uses the 8130-3 for return to service he hasn't violated any regulations, and has met the regulatory requirement of making a record entry. I've done it lots of times.

In short, the 8130-3 can be used by lots of agencies for lots of purposes. FAA has made it quite confusing when it really shouldn't be.

 

[thruthefence]

Correct me, anyone; but aren't crew seats 'primary structure' under the cfr's?

And, aren't some of the newer seat structures certified to a higher load factor?

I have been told, (anecdotes will sometimes bite you) that some FSDIO's are requiring the new 23G seats to have a form 337 (major repair/alteration) for re upholstery work at the trim shop.

 

[lbell]

To answer thruthefence's question: it depends on the certification requirements for the aircraft and how the seats were certified. If the cushion has specific requirements in order to meet the dynamic seat requirements then that could be the case.

The same goes for the amount of flammability testing required. Vertical burn is not enough for newer Part 25/29 seat requirements. Bottom line is to make sure that you know all the customers certification requirements and what amendment level of the FARs the item has to meet.

It gets very complicated and airlines have an extremely difficult task trying to keep up all the paper work so that they meet the regulations. They may be asking for more based on a number of reasons; recent audit, change in policy, or simply someone not knowing the exact requirements.

 

[rickpref]

Thanks for all the input. The cushions are non-flotation. They have all of the MFG certs and pass FAR 25.853 (a) - 12 seconds Vert Burn.

We've been selling them for years like this. What I gather from everyone is that basically if the specific airline requires 8130-3's you need to provide them huh?

 

[thruthefence]

So the cushions are "new" construction, and y'all are the manufacturer?

Tons of "NEW" stuff is installed without a 8130, but it has something called a "Certificate of Conformity".