Does anyone know of some quantitative guidelines on acceptable levels of piping vibration? We have a major problem with one of our turbine steam leads which we are attempting to solve with the use of dampers, but how do I know what is an acceptable level of vibration, and what is unacceptable?
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Piping Vibration Level Guidelines 2
- Thread starter seanmc
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Guest
Hello,
Start by going here and looking around the discussion boards.
Regards, John.
Start by going here and looking around the discussion boards.
Regards, John.
seanmc,
I do not think you will find any definitive industry guideline for acceptable levels of steam piping vibration.
As a consulting piping engineer, I was asked this question several times and the only references that I could find were the old ASME OM-S/G 1990 guidline as well as a table in the old "Shock & Vibration Handbook".
It is important to understand if this vibration is continuous or transient in nature and if it is associated with operation of a control valve. It may be possible to add (relativly) cheaper rigid pipe restraints to your system rather than the expensive, and high maintenance dampers.....
Any suggestions John Breen ???
MJC
I do not think you will find any definitive industry guideline for acceptable levels of steam piping vibration.
As a consulting piping engineer, I was asked this question several times and the only references that I could find were the old ASME OM-S/G 1990 guidline as well as a table in the old "Shock & Vibration Handbook".
It is important to understand if this vibration is continuous or transient in nature and if it is associated with operation of a control valve. It may be possible to add (relativly) cheaper rigid pipe restraints to your system rather than the expensive, and high maintenance dampers.....
Any suggestions John Breen ???
MJC
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1
- #5
Stress packages such as Algor's Pipepak enable you to model the system including modal analysis. If the excitation is caused by the turbine one could then model the location of supports such that the harmonics are not in tune with the forcing frequency. The problem may be solved by the use of spring hangars , rigid or other supports.
It is of concern that the vibration is occurring at all unless it is fluid generated.
It is of concern that the vibration is occurring at all unless it is fluid generated.
- Thread starter
- #6
Thanks for all the advice, I am following up on the resources suggested.
The vibration is continuous in nature, but only at low loads. The source of excitation is believed to be the control valve which is upstream of the problem area. Some modelling has already been done and additional spring/ oil snubbers added, without solving the problem.
Gerb dampers have been added to the system and we will take readings to test their effectiveness on commissioning.
Any further comments would be appreciated.
The vibration is continuous in nature, but only at low loads. The source of excitation is believed to be the control valve which is upstream of the problem area. Some modelling has already been done and additional spring/ oil snubbers added, without solving the problem.
Gerb dampers have been added to the system and we will take readings to test their effectiveness on commissioning.
Any further comments would be appreciated.
Try ISA codes involving design and specs of control valves. Vibration and noise in such elements couild thread pipe integrity. Right I've got a couple of projects due to excesive vibration and noise in piping systems.
Verufy SPL (Sound Power Levels) and feed your stress analysis software with frecuncies result of valve noise. That would give you some good results.
Theres is in market and aviable a software called BOSS fluid. I've never used it...but I've some good references of it.
Bye.
Verufy SPL (Sound Power Levels) and feed your stress analysis software with frecuncies result of valve noise. That would give you some good results.
Theres is in market and aviable a software called BOSS fluid. I've never used it...but I've some good references of it.
Bye.
Check out the ASME papers on this site
Guest
Hello All,
I am sorry it took me so long to get back to this question but I was looking in my "archive" (basement, complete with spiders) to find a paper that was written by Walter W. Von Nimitz a bunch of years ago. The paper has a chart that plots amplitude against frequency and it has curves for "danger", "correction", "marginal", "design", and "average threshold of perception". I found the paper but it is just barely readable.
So, instead I did a little research and I came up with a bunch of very good papers that are available at this address:
I think the paper that you will be most interested in is #72 but here are some of the other papers that are available (in PDF format so you will need Acrobat):
17. Escape Piping Vibrations While Designing, J. C. Wachel/C. L. Bates, Hydrocarbon Processing, October, 1976, pp. 152-166.
20. Field Investigation of Piping Systems for Vibration-Induced Stress and Failures, J. C. Wachel, Pressure Vessel and Piping Conference, ASME Bound Volume #H00219, June 27-July 2, 1982.
27. Piping Vibration and Stress, J. C. Wachel, Vibration Institute, Machinery Vibration Monitoring and Analysis Seminar, New Orleans, April 1981, pp. 1-20.
29. Pulsations in Centrifugal Pump and Piping Systems, C. R. Sparks and J. C. Wachel, Hydrocarbon Processing, July 1977, pp. 183-189.
37. Techniques for Controlling Piping Vibration and Failures, J. C. Wachel/C. L. Bates, ASME Paper 76-PET-18, 1976.
59. Vibration Troubleshooting of Existing Piping Systems, J. C. Wachel/D. R. Smith, July 1991.
72. Displacement Method for Determining Acceptable Piping Vibration Amplitudes, J. C. Wachel, 1995 ASME/JSME Pressure Vessels & Piping Conference, Honolulu, HI, July 1995.
Best regards, John.
I am sorry it took me so long to get back to this question but I was looking in my "archive" (basement, complete with spiders) to find a paper that was written by Walter W. Von Nimitz a bunch of years ago. The paper has a chart that plots amplitude against frequency and it has curves for "danger", "correction", "marginal", "design", and "average threshold of perception". I found the paper but it is just barely readable.
So, instead I did a little research and I came up with a bunch of very good papers that are available at this address:
I think the paper that you will be most interested in is #72 but here are some of the other papers that are available (in PDF format so you will need Acrobat):
17. Escape Piping Vibrations While Designing, J. C. Wachel/C. L. Bates, Hydrocarbon Processing, October, 1976, pp. 152-166.
20. Field Investigation of Piping Systems for Vibration-Induced Stress and Failures, J. C. Wachel, Pressure Vessel and Piping Conference, ASME Bound Volume #H00219, June 27-July 2, 1982.
27. Piping Vibration and Stress, J. C. Wachel, Vibration Institute, Machinery Vibration Monitoring and Analysis Seminar, New Orleans, April 1981, pp. 1-20.
29. Pulsations in Centrifugal Pump and Piping Systems, C. R. Sparks and J. C. Wachel, Hydrocarbon Processing, July 1977, pp. 183-189.
37. Techniques for Controlling Piping Vibration and Failures, J. C. Wachel/C. L. Bates, ASME Paper 76-PET-18, 1976.
59. Vibration Troubleshooting of Existing Piping Systems, J. C. Wachel/D. R. Smith, July 1991.
72. Displacement Method for Determining Acceptable Piping Vibration Amplitudes, J. C. Wachel, 1995 ASME/JSME Pressure Vessels & Piping Conference, Honolulu, HI, July 1995.
Best regards, John.
electricpete
Electrical
JOHN - OUTSTANDING LINK! I'd give you a star but you're not logged in.
electricpete
Electrical
Thanks Stanier, you get a star also.
- Thread starter
- #13
you can find interesting papers that can be downloaded in
you can perform a dynamic analysis with a program as AUTOPIPE or CEASAR'S, and to change the natural frecuencies of rhe pipe , by adding or relocatings supports.If this es not enough, you can try with hydraulic snubbers ( Lisega or Grinnell ) or voscoelastic dampers ( GERB)
you can perform a dynamic analysis with a program as AUTOPIPE or CEASAR'S, and to change the natural frecuencies of rhe pipe , by adding or relocatings supports.If this es not enough, you can try with hydraulic snubbers ( Lisega or Grinnell ) or voscoelastic dampers ( GERB)
John Breen
I am very interested in your link however I have no luck with access???
Dave1
I am very interested in your link however I have no luck with access???
Dave1
Dave1
Try it worked for me......
or
just and find your way
Try it worked for me......
or
just and find your way
the link for EDI's technical papers has been changed to:
i have personally worked with EDI on a few of my company's projects & have found their work to be quite good. their staff is extremely knowledgeable eps concnering pipeline vibration & pulsation. u might wanna give them a call and ask their thoughts as well.
hth,
kahlil
i have personally worked with EDI on a few of my company's projects & have found their work to be quite good. their staff is extremely knowledgeable eps concnering pipeline vibration & pulsation. u might wanna give them a call and ask their thoughts as well.
hth,
kahlil
the link for EDI's technical papers has been changed to:
i have personally worked with EDI on a few of my company's projects & have found their work to be quite good. their staff is extremely knowledgeable esp concerning pipeline vibration & pulsation. u might wanna give them a call and ask their thoughts as well.
hth,
kahlil
i have personally worked with EDI on a few of my company's projects & have found their work to be quite good. their staff is extremely knowledgeable esp concerning pipeline vibration & pulsation. u might wanna give them a call and ask their thoughts as well.
hth,
kahlil
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