Pole Numbering 3

[TD Ed]

I was searching the web for a new way to number our poles at a small Co-Op in the New England and ran across this smthread238-208577. Since that thread was closed I thought that I would ask if anyone has a different way to physically number a pole that could be tied more to sub, circuit, location, etc. We are now using a numbering system that uses the pole # with a left or right and then more of a pole # with a left or right, so it would look like this 134-R65-L12-L15-R5-L1, with the 134 being the main line pole, R65 being the 65th pole on a right hand circuit or tap, L12 being the 12th pole on a left tap off of the R65 pole etc.. The biggest problem with this is we have some poles on the system that can't be numbered with the correct pole # because it just will not fit on the pole, which has resulted in only some of the number on the pole, usually the last two. I have seen other companies with different numbering methods and was wondering if anyone can explain how their company or Co-op numbers there poles? Thanks.

 

[stevenal]

As I stated in the other thread, numbers should reflect location and not circuitry. Circuits change, but locations rarely change. Circuit changes should take place in your mapping system database, and not require sending people into the field. I think you'll find field changes to be both expensive and more error prone.

 

[davidbeach]

So you add a new main line pole and 134 becomes 135, do you really go out and retag every single pole beyond that location? Stop doing that and you ought to be able make a significant rate reduction for the customers/owners.

Within some geographic area, just number poles consecutively as they are installed and use you GIS system to keep track of where they are. For us the geographic area is a quarter township (3 miles by 3 miles) and so the designation for the quarter township becomes part of the pole number as well as the sequence number.

 

[bdn2004]

I worked for a utility years ago and I don't remember us numbering the poles. The switches, transformers,cap banks etc were numbered to match that of the grid maps. New poles get put in frequently for a new tap, a light or a transformer. Your sequence will get screwed up eventually. In my experience with anything the simpler you can make it the better. Telling someone pole 262 needs to be [pre][/pre]changed out is better than telling them pole Oak-sub-ckt14-262-n43-e45 needs to be changed out.

 

[waross]

A couple of systems I have worked with.
In a city.
Hundred block - pole number.
eg: The poles in the 300 block of a street would be numbered;- 3-1, 3-2, 3-3 etc. The odd numbers would be on the North side of the street.
eg: 3-1, 3-3, 3-5 would be on the north side or the west side.
A crew may be sent to Pole number 3-3, Oak Street. That would be the second pole on the west side of the Oak Street in the 300 block.
Transmission lines.
Miles from start of the circuit - tower number.
Thus Tower #68-2 would be the second tower in the 68th mile of the circuit.
In areas with parallel circuits you may wish to add a circuit number.

Bill
--------------------
"Why not the best?"
Jimmy Carter

 

[stevenal]

If I were designing a system from scratch, I think I would consider using some variant of the lat-long position. The number gives you the position, and the position gives you the number.

 

[Desrod2]

I believe the key question is: why do you need to number your pole? This should decide what info you need to put there and what is worth maintaining?
The utility I worked with (In Quebec just a bit North or you)decided to go to a pure random numbering system composed of a letters and numbers sequence AND a good data base model that was coupled with GIS eventually and on board access in workforce vehicles. The decision was made in the 70' when we had a strong load growth and network expansion resulting in frequent network topology changes... and constant renaming/relabeling in some area. Some network sections were even transferred from one substation to the other to balance load. Advantage of having a random numbering were great in preventing accident. We had in the past linemen using the pole tag which carried the feeder #, to call for opening of a given feeder to then discover that the line was still live since the given section was now supplied by another sub or on a different feeder and not yet relabeled.
Today, a GPS or a smart phone could be used to find pole Z3D3F easily if you have the right x and y coordinates. We use Google Maps to show our customers where their network is after finding a fault.

 

[wbd]

I believe the key question is: why do you need to number your pole? This should decide what info you need to put there and what is worth maintaining?

One reason I can think of is to track which wood poles have been tested for rot and treated. Should be part of a maintenance program so that one does not wait until the pole rots and falls over or ends up being held up by the tension in the wires.

Another reason is to track other parties attachments to your poles for tariff reasons.

How about to identify which poles are in which city/town/village for tax purposes?

 

[Compositepro]

Hmmm, I have heard about pole taxes.

 

[stevenal]

It's called a franchise fee here. Sounds better than pole tax I guess.

 

[Mbrooke]

Go by random numbers. Pole count and circuits will change. That is a given. As for labeling one reason to do it is an emergency. If a line section needs to be denergized anyone can call in the number.

 

[TD Ed]

These are all excellent answers, we are required by RUS to label and identify all poles on our system. We have been lucky due to the fact of not having anything get to screwed up when adding poles between existing poles by adding an A or B behind the number. Yes we do have a pole tax and a line and equipment tax, all related to the age of the line. Our system is now in the second generation of pole inspection by a contractor that is using a resistor-graph, a tool that is used to identify rot or decay in a pole, and need to identify the pole in order to find where it is and yes we gave them our lat/long to help them not miss any poles. Identifying a pole also helps in an emergency in storms so emergency workers can call our dispatchers with a pole number and tell us what town, street that they saw the tree on the line or broken pole, most people don't think about the lat/long or x/y to identify where the pole was/is. We are trying to go to iPad's but money is tight, so access to lat/long is limited. Also we own our poles and charge a attachment fee for anyone that wants to attach, we also do field audits to make sure we are not being taken advantage of and to insure we are not double charging others. Our mapping system is updated daily with new poles, lines, equipment added or switches, fuses removed, replaced or added. We are very rural, I'm talking 5 to 6 meters per mile of line, we have some lines that are 25 to 30 poles long before you come to a house or they will go cross lots for 2 miles before you come to another road. Our circuits and substations have not been added to or changed significantly since the 70's, people are not willing to give ROW for the common good of all for better access to a line for storm restoration and WEC is not willing to spend money on emanate domain costs. We are just looking for a better numbering system than what we have now. Thanks for the comments.

 

[wbd]

WEC

hmm, could that be in VT?

 

[TD Ed]

Yes it is.

 

[GroovyGuy]

Hi TD Ed.
I like Mbrooke's suggestion, but I would not call the Pole ID Tag a 'random' number, it should be a 'unique sequential' number (ie '1234567'). The sequential number is applied when the pole is procured, and stays with the pole until it is discarded at the end of it's life. Even if the pole is moved to another location, the Pole ID Tag never changes.
The pole dbase would include all of the relevent data, including, but not limited to;
- Prime Record
[li] ID number (ie unique sequential number, 1234567)[/li]
[li] date procured (ie 1985 10 01)[/li]
[li] class (ie 1, 2, 3 etc)[/li]
[li] height (ie 45 ft, 50 ft, etc)[/li]
[li] material (ie fir, cedar, steel, concrete)[/li]
- Secondary Record
[li] present location (latitude, longitude)[/li]
[li] date installed at present location (ie 1990 01 04)[/li]
[li] present circuit number (ie Utility's circuit number)[/li]
[li] date discarded (ie 2016 06 06)[/li]

With a proper relational dbase, any previous locations, circuit numbers, etc can be related to the prime record, and thereby easily retrieved.
The above recommendation is consistent with modern dbase techniques.

If you wanted to add more data to the pole ID tag, I would strongly recommend that you only include data from the prime record, and nothing form the secondary record, ie;
1985_45_01_WRC_1234567
where
1985 - Date Procured
45 - Height
01 - Class
WRC - Western Red Cedar
1234567 - Unique sequential number

Incorporating data from the secondary record becomes onerous when things change in the field.
I trust that you will find something useful in my above blithering , but I am a database guy and I hate to see people get off on the wrong tangent so early and can't back themselves out of the mess that could have been avoided.
Regards.
GG

 

[TD Ed]

Thanks for the information I'll keep that in mind. We already do most of what you have mentioned GroovyGuy i was looking more towards identifying for personnel in the field without having to access a laptop or Ipad, just to give them an idea as to weather they are headed in the right direction as the line feeds and to identify thae pole.