Powerware UPS 6

[cb92]

I have a Powerware Personal 1000 UPS that I want to fix. I know it's old, but this will be good training. I bought new batteries for it. It's blowing the 30 amp fuses inside on the 30 volt DC side. I have not been able to find any manuals or schematics, been looking for weeks. If I could find the patent, it may have what I need, but I think the patent number is hidden in the barcode. Can anyone help me with this? ESOXmaniac, are you out there?

 

[itsmoked]

Have you replaced the battery? Sounds like it may have a shorted plate and hence is blowing fuses.

Otherwise you should replace it. You don't want something like a UPS that sits under/in your furniture 24/7 waiting to burn down your facility. Newer ones have many, many, new safety improvements.

Keith Cress
kcress -

http://www.flaminsystems.com

 

[cb92]

Yes, new batteries. What's a shorted plate? I have read in another post that these units don't like the cord out, use the ground for a reference. I can check that when I put the two 5.0 caps back in. They were buzzing and made a small pop when the relay on the 110 side cycled.

 

[itsmoked]

Shorted plates are when two plates in a battery connect where they shouldn't.

Caps are the first thing to fail in most electronics. They often have a paste in them. Over time the required moisture slowly escapes until the cap's value changes too much, or the caps open, or fail catastrophically.


Keith Cress
kcress -

http://www.flaminsystems.com

 

[jraef]

I would immediately suspect the caps as well, especially if it has been off-line for a year or more.

By the way, if your Powerware UPS says "Invensys" on it and you can't get support from them, it was purchased by Eaton Copr a few years ago, they might have info.

 

[cb92]

Thanks for the replies, fellas. I've been steady checking caps with my vom, capanalyzer first on shopping list. Is a Blue esr good enough? Batteries are new, test 30v (5X6v) ok.
Been looking for shorts; the 30v side acts like a cap where the batteries hookup (vom reads 10ohm one way, jumps to 20 then70 the other way), but amps peg my 50amp meter and the jumper wire starts smoking when I hookup the batteries. I really would like to find the schematic or a manual, but can't even find the patent#. Any way to read the barcode?

 

[MacGyverS2000]

I see no reason why they would put a patent # in a barcode. If a company places a patent # on a product, it's to place in plain view letting someone know the product is protected.

Dan - Owner

http://www.Hi-TecDesigns.com

 

[cb92]

Dan- I've looked everywhere for a patent number. I found one patent for an UPS and it explained everything in the unit including a fairly decent schematic. It was a 1996 patent for a DC output unit. When I was talking to the tech at Eaton, I got the feeling that companies like that don't want folks to be able to repair their products, just buy new ones. I can only imagine that by the time someone is working on a unit worth more than $500, he doesn't need schematics or repair manuals. Everything I ever worked on like cars or pumps or generators, you could find a manual.

 

[IRstuff]

You can try looking at these:

http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-...nsys&Refine=Refine+Search&Query=an/Powerware+

Click "View Images" to see the actual printed patent

TTFN

FAQ731-376

 

[cb92]

Thanks, IRstuff for the patent page. I'll probably have to use PatentStorm to view images. I read the faq thing. I didn't go to VPI to get my degree, even though I had a scholarship. Went directly into the trades instead. I've learned just about all of them in the manufacturing and maintenance fields. Now I want to improve my knowledge in electronics. It always drove me nuts when a transformer driven object acted up and I didn't have the skill to really sort it out. Hope you guys will tolerate me in this learning phase; I've checked out lots of forums, and you guys make the most sense.

 

[rtronics]

When you hook new batteries to a ups you generally get a capacitive splat. But no smoking wires.
I would suggest checking the power mosfets, that are usually heatsinked.
Then the driver circuits for these mosfets.
Then the driver circuits for these drivers.
The consider the time you have spent getting nowhere, and then follow itsmoked's advice and get a new one.
Regards, Ray.

 

[mcgyvr]

http://support.intergy-dc.com/csg/yeti/act/logon.do

You can get support for powerware products at this link.

 

[cb92]

Ray, thanks for the info. The smoking wire was quite small, one of my gators from the temp ampmeter to the fuse. I know I can get UPS units, I want to learn how to fix them. Eventually I want to move to the country, and be able to make my own juice if I need to. Right now here in St. Thomas the lites go out often.

 

[felixc]

You will not get help from the manufacturers for liability reasons. Who's responsible of the collateral damages if a repaired UPS fails?
For example replacing the caps with new ones with some different esr (say a better one since it is an old unit) may create greater power-on surges that may in the long term damage the other parts at the primary side.
This is just to say that the design parameters are tight on these products, and controlling them is part of the know-how of these companies so they will not volunteer the information.

 

[cb92]

Felixc-Thanks for the reply, it made a lot of sense. I have just been accustomed to getting books and manuals for anything I needed to fix. I'm seeing that there are not so subtle differences between appliances, vehicles, pumps, etc, and sophisticated electronic devices. As you say, a cap change can make a difference. I will continue to study and learn more about the subject before I attempt to make any repairs. The catch 22 is, I've been trying to determine which type of UPS this unit is. I've read about ferroresonant,switching mode,floating ground, and other types,but can't be sure what I have. More studying to find out;when a repair manual sure would have been a great help.
Ford doesn't take any responsibility when I change the brakes on my truck.

 

[MacGyverS2000]

Ford doesn't take any responsibility when I change the brakes on my truck.

Of course not. You can purchase Ford-approved brake pads from the dealer, so if something goes wrong it was most likely an installation issue, not poor quality parts (hence, recall). If you install non-Ford components and it fails, they can blame the components. You can't go to your local UPS store and pick up a Powerware-approved cap.

Dan - Owner

http://www.Hi-TecDesigns.com

 

[felixc]

The purpose of a UPS is to protect your computer, your data, in case of power surges or outages. A UPS that does not do the job is a good candidate for complaints and maybe even legal actions. There are even UPS manufacturers that boast insurance money in case of failure damage.

You can find a bit about the architecture by examining the part numbers on the controller chips. I doubt that they will use custom-made chips. Finding these data sheets may provide some good data on the subject. Except for the microcontroller that communicates with the computer.

 

[cb92]

You can't go to your local UPS store and pick up a Powerware-approved cap.

Thanks, Macguyvers2000, you're right.
Thanks, also, Felixc, your answers are very helpful, just what I need. I've just been hoping to get lucky and find an inside track to info that is undoubtedly reserved for Powerware techs.

 

[cb92]

I've been trying to get contact with ESOXmaniac, maybe if I list thread 248-204019 he will be notified. Still working on the Powerware 1000, learning a lot, still need schematic. Hope I don't get flamed for asking.

 

[MacGyverS2000]

No idea who this ESOXmaniac is, but I doubt you'll get a hold of him simply by posting here...

Dan - Owner

http://www.Hi-TecDesigns.com