Product planning in GM 1

[annafergusen1980]

A few days ago I read an old article about "product planning" in GM the writer said that they have this "Forward planning" team that is basically responsible for two things: (1) Forward planning (2) program planning I was wondering if, still such a group exists or it has evolved to something else.

Besides I'd like to know if anybody has any information about the organization chart of product planning group in GM. And at last, I'd like to know how long does the whole process of designing a new car (from market studies till the end) lasts.

Thank you
Anna

 

[GregLocock]

Last bit. These times are for big 3, and are real, not what the PR people claim.

It depends on the complexity of the program. If it involves an existing engine and platform, with perhaps an all new body, and some significant suspension changes, 4 or 5 years. The first year is spent doing all sorts of non-engineering things, with a very small engineering team who basically sit around and answer silly questions (that is good fun).

If it was all new from scratch, 7 years or more. Engines are probably the hardest to do.

You could pull a year out of those numbers if you had a dedicated press shop and assembly line.

Annual freshenings, wheels, new cloth for the seats and new colours, take about two years, but that is just to fit in with everything else, without stressing people, and to give a smooth introduction, other than testing the paint for UV and so on you could do it in 6 months.

One way to look at it is that the tooling for some parts can take 18 months to make.

You'll see claims that the Japanese do a complete 'new' model in 18 months. That rather depends on your definition of 'new', and when you count the start from.

Very good sources for this sort of stuff are "The Machine that changed the World", and the infinitely funnier "Car" by Mary Walton.



Cheers

Greg Locock

Please see FAQ731-376 for tips on how to make the best use of Eng-Tips.

 

[Rob45]

The Japanese do new models in a bit less time than the Big 3, but not near as much less time as they'd have you believe, especially if it's an all new model. I have been involved in an all-new program with a Japan carmaker, and I know that it's close to a 5-year program from the first program assumptions to vehicle launch.

Asking for a product planning org chart at GM is asking for pretty closely-guarded information, for reasons that should be obvious.

 

[GregLocock]

Was that a complete new engine as well? Bear in mind that program assumtions are the result of some research (which admittedly may already have taken place).

Cheers

Greg Locock

Please see FAQ731-376 for tips on how to make the best use of Eng-Tips.

 

[safetydan]

The time lines for the Japanese carmakers is not much different from the Big 3. Brand new product development for my company can be as much as 8 years, but it is generally on the order of 5-6. Like Greg stated, a lot of things depend on the engine. I won't go into engine development, mainly because I don't know exactly, but I do know it is a long time.

 

[cibachrome]

Your estimates are off by 2. This is a new Century with computers, 3D, ADAMS, Carsim, MTS, and lots of good current cars for mules & parts. Go back to Solstice as an example. Completely new 2010 & 11 programs are starting from "Now". One in particular that the Press is interested in. Its obviously out of "forward planning" (auto showland??) and into "production planning" which really means sourcing and engineering for manufacturing, safety, new Fed regs and market acceptance, fuel emphasis, Greenland, smog and gizmos.

Does "forward" planning phrase mean "reverse" and neutral planning was in the article? [ Just curious.]

The chart does exist. They meet regularly and happen to be meeting here next Tuesday.

Where ever here is...

 

[rmw]

The automotive guys will probably know the who/what/when and can fill in the details, but there was a book written about the executive who developed the "planned obsolescence" concept at GM. (I'll leave the googling to you) It gives a lot of information about the process and how it works.

rmw

 

[cibachrome]

rw: not sure why you would single out GM, civil war firearms fit the wiki description too. Isn't it the better mousetrap analogy that applies? Surely music, houses, clothes, computers, chips, media, shoes, boats and newspapers are all able to fit your implied strategy. With Toyota and Honda leading the model and fitment change scnario in cars, they are the product obsolescence Masters. However, the Chinese are biting at their necks and the Indians are gearing up for a fight. Of course, di-lithium crystals (naturally produced, only) will stop all of this. Sloan's credit will stop when Zephram Cochran comes out of hiding and hands us a viable anti-matter reaction chamber. Or was there some other point you were wanting to make?

 

[GregLocock]

"Your estimates are off by 2. "

Prove it.


Cheers

Greg Locock

Please see FAQ731-376 for tips on how to make the best use of Eng-Tips.

 

[GregLocock]

Here's a datapoint, by Dave McCurdy
August 4th, 2007
President and CEO of the Alliance of Automobile Manufacturers, representing BMW, DaimlerChrysler, Ford, General Motors, Mazda, Mitsubishi, Porsche, Toyota and Volkswagen:


"That’s why lead time is so important. Keep in mind that the cars and light trucks our engineers are working on today won’t be on sales floors until 2014 or later.

That’s how long it takes to coordinate the 3,000 different parts that go into a single vehicle. Or to enhance and refine the approximately 50 prototypes that lead to the production of just a single model. "


Cheers

Greg Locock

Please see FAQ731-376 for tips on how to make the best use of Eng-Tips.

 

[dgowans]

It's been a while since I was in the automotive arena, but my experience leads me to side with Greg. I was working on products that were typically 3-4 years out, at a minimum, and these were things that for the most part just needed to bolt to the vehicle and look nice - not much in the way of heavy engineering required.