Psych Minors Welcome 4

[rjgoebel]

I am wondering if I should be having a candid and open conversation with one of the guys at my company. (A midsized MEP/FP firm) I have been working here for just over a year, am 2 years out of college. At my review recently, I was expecting some big 'something' to come from it. I wasn't really sure what. I think the first question was something like, what is your biggest complaint about this job, and I simply wrote, 'I'm not sure if I want to do this for the rest of my life.' I was expecting a serious heart to heart kind of conversation to come from it, but he just replied, 'Well that's something you are going to have to figure out.'

Yeah, the guy's right. It's not his responsibility to babysit anyone. He just manages the department and wants to be as profitable as possible...

With that in mind, I want to get some feedback from some other engineers. I keep thinking again and again that I should be doing something bigger and better, and that's not to take anything away from the engineering profession, but moreso from the corporate engineering environment.

I'm happy with the environment that I'm working at here, but in a technical sense the work just isn't all that challenging. I understand that understanding all of the nuts and bolts of a power system and lighting system is important for someone to do. It's just that it is so darn tedious. Engineering as a whole gets to be somewhat tedious but my main complaint with consulting engineering thus far is that the tedious part is so hard to avoid. There really isn't much that is 'cutting edge' in the construction industry. Quite the opposite, actually. Established norms and codes rule. After reading a few threads on Gen Y and young vs old in the workplace, I don't want to be grouped into an age of entitlement. I don't feel entitled to much at all, and in many respects I feel very lucky to be an engineer in this great country of wealth and opportunity.. But is it too much to ask for , to ask for a challenging job that is somewhat fufilling? I hope not. I want to get some seasoned engineers' perspectives on this:

Did you go through some 'is this what I really want to do?' thoughts on engineering in general or whatever particular field you entered? I almost wish I could go out and sample 4 different fields within EE to find out what is for me, but at that point you lose out on opportunity cost for specializing/experience in one particular field, as well as losing credibility if switching jobs so much.

 

[sms]

1) All beginning jobs are tedious, I remember my first job out of school was basically as a overpaid filing clerk. (Tracking welding inspection records for ASME code compliance).

2) Start right now figuring out what it is that you find intersting. You won't be able to do that on the job, so go to IEEE meetings, or conferences, or whereever engineers with your credentials hang out and find out what is exciting.

3) Don't be afraid to move! Especially at the 2 years out of school, they almost expect it.

4) No one owes you "something big" you have to earn it. But you can and should figure out what that looks like in your mind and passion, and go chase it!

5) Suck up. Many on these board will whine about suck ups, but if management doesn't know who you are, how are they going to know to give you "something big"

6) Start chasing credentials, PE license, Industry certs, Management certs, what ever, but get the training and the paper. That is all excellent advertising on a resume.

7) Volunteer to speak at a meeting of your tech society write and submit articles to trade magazines. The best way to get a name, and an excellent way to learn stuff is to go research it and write about it.

8) Consiously maintain a positive attitude. You have a choice each morning to be negative or be positive. Positive will take you a lot further. Managers (and I have been one) hate having to deal with negative people, and most engineers are negative. You want to stand out from the crowd, be positive!







"Why don't you knock it off with them negative waves? Why don't you dig how beautiful it is out here? Why don't you say something righteous and hopeful for a change?" Oddball, "Kelly's Heros" 1970

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[rjgoebel]

I'm digging the be positive advice. It's something I could definitely take to heart...

Well time for some basketball! I look forward to any other advise anyone might have. And by the way, you guys are super smart and nice to have around as a resource.

Anyone want to come work for our company?

 

[EddyC]

There are numerous companies & industries out there. Not all engineers find everyone of them equally rewarding. Its your task to try and find out if there is another industry or employer that you will better fit into. Some folks hop around quite a bit before they find a "home". The hopping around is easier the younger you are. Go for it.

 

[KENAT]

From my experience there is a lot of tedium. To some extent get used to it.

It's surprising how few cutting edge projects there are in comparison to the number of minor developments, same again but different, sustaining issues etc.

Also you do need to learn the ropes.

Plus be careful what you wish for. We've had people here (interns & permanent staff) complain that what they were being given didn't challenge them etc. We broke at least 2 of them by giving them more challenging tasks which we thought they should be able to handle but turned out they couldn't. While being stretched helps you grow it can be very uncomfortable at the time.

Every few months there is a post from someone like you, fairly new to industry complaining that they are bored, not challenged etc. You're not alone, maybe try and find some of these other posts.

Some of my tasks in my first year or two included, taking meeting minutes and associated tasks (essentially being the head of PDS/Sustaining Engineerings secretary) minor drawing revisions/amendments on linen etc. Placating manufacturing engineers requests for design changes most of which we couldn't implement for contractural reasons.

None of it real interesting or challenging but turns out that it was experience that has since been very useful.

KENAT, probably the least qualified checker you'll ever meet...

 

[KENAT]

thread731-188766 not what I was looking for but may be of interest.

KENAT, probably the least qualified checker you'll ever meet...

 

[Eleceng01]

rjgoegel,

It is true that some aspects of engineering can be tedious. However, if you find that right field of EE, you will love it and doing it everyday! Maybe "understanding all of the nuts and bolts of a power system and lighting system" is just not your thing. Our A/E firm has about 30 EE's and only 4 do power systems work (MV/HV usually). The rest (for the most part) are not interested in this work. On the other hand - I love it.

To each his own though - just read trade magazines and try to find something that interests you. Remember, for the most part, we all have to get up and go to work in the morning, so get up and go to something that you love! You will be happier at work and it will make you happier at home as well.

Good luck!

 

[JMirisola]

One thing I found disturbing was your manager's response. While it may not be his responsibility to "babysit", I do believe it's his responsibility to be a mentor to those on his team.
Once you've come to a decision as to what you want to do, and begin searching for a new position, be sure to look for mentorship in your manager. Such a manager will help your career immeasurably.

Jeff Mirisola, CSWP
SW '07 SP2.0, Dell M90, Intel 2 Duo Core, 2GB RAM, nVidia 2500M

http://designsmarter.typepad.com/jeffs_blog

 

[corus]

Perhaps the reason you don't find the work challenging is because you don't challenge the work. Being positive about your work isn't always the best way. Try being negative and challenge accepted practices and take the tedium out of the work by doing it differently and hopefully quicker.

There was one person I worked with who insisted on repeating the same calculation, with different parameters, 100 times. I asked why he didn't write some code so he could speed it up and not have to repeat the work time after time. The answer was because he wanted to get the work done quickly. He found it tedious too. The fool.

corus

 

[ykee]

rjgoebel,
maybe you should figure out what aspects of your job you do like. This will help you determine what you want to do. You should also figure out what someone a couple years senior to you does -- if this appeal to you, maybe you need to stay.

Engineering is a broad field, you could be doing anything from lab testing to sales. If you don't know what you like doing, your next career move could land you in the same position.

 

[rjgoebel]

1 - i like making money
2 - i like interacting, and tackling problems that I feel no one has ever dealt with before
3 - i like having the ability to model systems/ processes with software to optimize them
4 - i like learning in a broad sense ie: talking to the mechanical engineers when they don't mind teaching an EE some thermal systems..

Of these things, I get to do, 1 to some extent (Im not getting rich), 2 very rarely, 3 never (unless I go above and beyond to design/dev a new product), and 4 fairly often.

The thing I love about this company is the culture here. From top down there are a lot of really bright and people with empathy. Also, there's things like company basketball in the mornings which I don't think I could survive just interacting with my co-workers on a strictly work basis..

One thing I'm thinking about, and seems to match my technical interest and skillset moreso is maybe getting into modeling load flow or energy trading on the grid. I did some really awesome computer models for financial markets in college using JAVA, and that was far and away the one thing that I look back on and can say wow that was cool. So for that reason career wise maybe the A/E firm is a good starting point, getting a better feel for where the loads and where the powers actually going... But Im certainly not getting to use my strong programming skills at all.

And when I look at the guys who are two years ahead of me, some have made manager level some haven't. I have no doubt I'm going to be good enough to do my own projects independantly and manage people in this field if this is what I want to do. But of the first level managers I've worked for, under thus far, they have mostly, with one exception been cynical and arrogant engineers, unfortunately.

I don't know, honestly I was way too theory based in my outlook after getting out of college. I never worked in a real live corporate engineering environment, which I am definitely seeing the benefits of now in terms of efficiency compared to a much smaller firm (as long as its well managed)

So this certainly isnt ALL bad. I'm getting experience for better or for worse, I guess at least I'll soon be able to make up my mind in a more informed manner..

 

[ykee]

A few thoughts for you: look into some of the simulation software for building energy consumption (most of it is DOE2 based), maybe some of the more advanced lighting simulation tools like radiance. These programs are more plug and play, rather than programming, same would apply to some of the programs that you probably use like SKM.

 

[GMcD]

RJ Goebel: Your first priority (1. Making money) puts you in a Catch-22 situation with any building consulting engineering firm. The way most building consultants make more money is by NOT doing anything that requires risk, or doing anything beyond tried and true systems applications that have become basically a "drafting service" level of "design", where the Building Codes have become a maximum standard to achieve, rather than a minimal achievement level. Doing repeatable types of systems means getting the drawings and "design" done quicker, which means more profit. Doing a leading edge design approach incurs risk, and actual design time for additional calculations, modeling, research, etc. No building owner wants his project to be your test bed for new stuff, unless you get him to buy into it so he understands the risks and long term issues that might arise.

You indicated in some of your other posts that what you like are technical challenges, and maybe doing a little leading edge actual "design" rather than a simple reactive, tried and true design approaches. The biggest challenge for all building consulting engineers is to become low energy building designers, learning about the building envelope and building physics part of "how buildings work", and in your case as a "sparkie" (and I use the term in a nice way), you should be challenging yourself with learning all about daylighting modeling, higher efficiency lighting systems, lighting control strategies to minimize lighting energy use, learning how to interact with the other buildings designers so that you DON'T get the phone calls from the jobsite when the electrician finds out your motor data list and the Mechanical guy's motor data list don't match, and he has his hand out for an extra to sort out the changes.

Improve your contract law knowledge- that's about 90% of what building consultants dabble in- providing legal contract documents for Contractors to bid on, and then you fight with them later over what's supposed to be in or out of the scope of work as provided by the Tender documents. Contract Law 201 in second year is the course that has become the most applied material in my world, as a mechanical building systems designer for the last, almost 30 years

As you've realized, your employer is not there to be a babysitter (although most construction sites I attend are not much better than day-care for adults) and it is up to you as a developing professional to continue your self-education and continual professional development. The schooling you got was only a background lead-in to the next step of your own development.

 

[FiltrationEngineer]

I am three years out of school and I'm happy with my job. My last interview, they asked me what position I wanted with the company, I said, "I pretty much like to choose what I'm working on and who I'm working with. I like to solve problems and make things run more smoothly and my resume shows that."

They created a position for me to do just that, so I love my job. Here is how I got there:

1. When presented with tedious work I spent my time figuring out a way to automate it. Then I'd go show my boss how this spreadsheet I created did 8 hours of work in 10 minutes, and how I'd like to apply this kind of change to some other system. When you do that, your boss really likes it. Don't tell them what you can do and suggest changes, just do the work, then show them how good you are. Thats not sucking up, its proving yourself.

2. Be results oriented not task oriented. Don't spend your time performing tasks for your employer, spend you time producing the results he wants. Focus on accomplishments you can put on a resume.

3. Get as much training as possible. I have had about $30,000 in training in the last three years. I know I was very lucky to get an employer to pay for it all and make my resume look spectacular so I could go out and get a much higher paying job, but get as much training as possible.

 

[sms]

And here is some more advice...

http://finance.yahoo.com/expert/article/careerist/41552

"Why don't you knock it off with them negative waves? Why don't you dig how beautiful it is out here? Why don't you say something righteous and hopeful for a change?" Oddball, "Kelly's Heros" 1970

Please see FAQ731-376 for tips on how to make the best use of the Eng-Tips Forums.

 

[jgoebel]

Thanks for the advice, guys.

 

[RDK]

The 80/20 rule applies to most jobs.

80% of what you do is work; dull, boring and repetitive work. The other 20% is the actual interesting stuff that makes you want to come to work every day.

I’ve generally been lucky as the reverse has applied. 80% of my work gets me up in the morning and only 20% sends me home at night.


Rick Kitson MBA P.Eng

Construction Project Management
From conception to completion

http://www.kitsonengineering.com

 

[Ashereng]

Here is another take on your situation.

Just because you can do something "bigger" or "better", doesn't mean that you will get to do it - someone else may be "better" than you, and is in front of you in the queue for the "better" assignments.

People often only see the world from their own vantage point, which is the "I can do this, why doesn't someone let me do it?". Often times, I say to them "Because so-and-so is doing it. Are you saying that you are better than them?" And if they answer yes, then I reply with "Show me." Show me that you are indeed better and chances are, I will give the work to you.

Just a different read on things.

"Do not worry about your problems with mathematics, I assure you mine are far greater."
Albert Einstein
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