Pump requirements for pulling water from pond 1

[Fishinfever]

I am doing a project in Hawaii that requires a vertical turbine pump to supply water from a spring fed pond to the fire loop around the building and the water storage tank that supplies the building for fire sprinklers. There will also be a pump after the storage tank dedicated just for the sprinkler system.

My question is: Does the vertical turbine pump have to be UL listed and rated for fire protection, or can we use any type of pump from any manufacturer? I am trying to save the client some money where I can.

 

[chicopee]

It all depends on the depth of the water supply to the pup elevation. More details such as depth, flow rate and head are needed.

 

[Fishinfever]

Ok let me make it clearer. All I need to know is if there is a code stating that the vertical turbine pump needs to be UL listed. I already have the information on size of pond, and flow characteristics, I just need to know if I can buy commercial pump, or does it have to be UL listed for fire protection. I know the pump serving the sprinkler system will need to be, but I am not sure about the pond pump.

 

[LCREP]

How big is the tank can it supply the required fire flow for the duration required? If the vertical pump is only required to fill the tank then I would think does not need to listed but if the tank is not big enough to supply the fire flow and duration it would need to be listed.

 

[mk3223]

IMO, if a UL pump available and complied with the NFPA requirement, you may use it without any justification needed. Or, you may need an approval from AHJ.

 

[Cidona]

Are there hydrants being fed from the loop (which as I understand is being fed from the vertical turbine). If so I would think that the vertical turbine should be UL Listed. I would see this a being no different that any installation requiring a fire pump as NFPA 24 2015 section 5.6 requires pumps feeding Private Service mains to be installed per NFPA 20. If you're figuring on having a UL Pump for the sprinkler system (fed from the tank), then I would see the vertical turbine as needing to also be UL Listed for the private service main (if the service main is feeding hydrants). If the vertical turbine is purely a fed to the tank, then I wouldn't see the vertical turbine as needing to be UL Listed as long as you get AHJ approval for the provided solution to comply with NFPA 22 Standard for Water Tanks for Private Fire Protection 2013 section 4.2 Water Sources.
Would it be better to just have a feed to the tank from the vertical turbine and then feed the loop (sprinklers and hydrants) from the tank and UL pump?

 

[Fishinfever]

Thank you everyone for your input, and yes the vertical turbine is feeding the fire loop (with hydrants) as well as filling the tank.

 

[chicopee]

The fire vertical turbine pump could also be FM approval.

 

[SprinklerDesigner2]

My two cents worth that is probably off topic but here goes anyway.

I would go UL/FM all the way.

Why do sprinkler design technicians sometimes do what they do? Here we have a building, or maybe a series of buildings, large enough to require fire hydrants and a loop around the building, and we're all worried about saving a couple bucks? Why? What exactly is the point?

I have a complex with 600,000 sq ft of storage buildings and for a value what it would take to replace the building (rack storage with 39'-8 peak) I believe we would be safely on the low side if we picked $40/sq ft.

$24 million dollars just for the building replacement alone and we're gonna get all wound up saving maybe $30,000 on the high side for a fire pump? Really, does this like a smart move to anyone here? Take the $30,000 and toss it in the garbage because it is irreverent.

Even if an AHJ told me it would be ok I would walk away. Oh yes I would and at a fast walk at that. We've all see buildings of this size and it isn't hard to imagine $100 million in building and contents. Here we worry about maybe saving the owner a few thousand dollars doing something we know in our hearts isn't exactly the right thing to do even if we have "permission"?

What happens if there is a fire and a fireman with a young wife and two children gets killed? Speaking for myself I couldn't live with that because I would wonder for the rest of my life if it was something I did wrong.

Rant completed.

 

[chicopee]

My two cents worth....here goes anyway.
Contact your fire insurance carrier and Hawaii fire marshalfor their input and they'' state UL/FM fire pumps. Forget Chinese products if cost is a consideration.