Purchasing 2 Lathes, Opinions?

[Legrand]

I'm in a search to add 2 lathes to our shop. I have about 8 years experience as a Journeyman Tool & Die maker/Machinist, but only at one shop, so my experience has been limited to the lathes we had there, namely an Okuma engine lathe, a couple LeBlonde's and a Hardinge Toolroom lathe.

What is needed now, is an Engine lathe, able to turn threads english and metric with a spindle diameter of 2" or less (bigger may be ok, just not necessary), and some sort of smaller turret lathe. They currently have a Hardinge D59 but this is underpowered for some of the work they need to do (threading some 316 SS). We are running mostly small production here (20-1000 pcs.) so it would be benefical to have a 5C collet closer as the Hardinge HLV ones do. I would get a second Hardinge, the Toolroom lathe, but it would be overkill as the tolerances here are, at best, +/-.001" and usually more like +/-.005". Sizes are less than 1.0" diameter 95% of the time. I'd also want DRO's on both machines.

I guess what I'm wondering is what Engine Lathes I should be looking at? New? Used? Rebuilt? What brands? From the research I've done, the used ones I've looked at are basically the same price range as a new one (Used LeBlond vs. New Birmingham or Sharpe).

I also am having difficulty locating new turret lathes... apparently they are no longer manufactured since the advent of CNC's... have been looking at used Warner and Swassey ones. Is there any other economical option to this type of smaller production I'm unaware of? A particular type of lathe, some sort of NC hybred? There are no machinists here, only production workers, so a CNC is kind of out of the question. They can't justify the cost of a programmer to run one machine on these small quantities.

Any information would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks.

 

[EdDanzer]

Do not buy a Victor lathe. Try Toolmex if you need a new one. When buying used, if the machine was good and making the owner money, why would he sell it? You will probably need to put a new chuck on a used machine, most people will fight a junk chuck rather than buy a new one.
You can learn programming for CNC lathes quite quickly, if you do families of parts or more than 2 or 3 of a part number with threads, close tolerances, or contours you need to look at CNC. Word of caution, not all CNC machines cost the same to setup.

 

[howitwork]

HEY LEGRAND,
I am a Tool Designer at a Toolmakers shop and I was tasked with finding and purchasing replacement lathes for our 1940 models. Five years ago we looked at our operation and decided to go with conversation lathes, knee mills, and surface grinders. The power they have and ease of programming allows the toolmakers to move from machine to machine as they did with the manual machines. We also do piece work no large runs. One of our main considerations was not having to have dedicated programmers and allowing the toolmakers to remain independant do the job their way and not make them button pushers.
We recently purchased Romi M series lathes with the Fanuc 21i controllers which allows manual, conversational, and G code use. For the knee mill we purchased Clausing with Acu-rite 3 axis controllers and converted our Bridgeport EZpath II's to the Acu-rite 3 axis controllers also for compatability. These lathes will increase your productivity are easy to learn and will give you capabilities that eliminates alot of setups and fixture design and manufacture. I would definitely recommend new machines, you know what you are getting and you have the warranty and company support at your call. If have any questions or would like more information on our experiences let me know. HAVE A GREAT DAY!

 

[Legrand]

Ed, What steers you away from Victor lathes? I had someone else half-recommend one to me.

Howitwork, We need to stick with manual machines here as there are no "machinists" save for me. CNC lathes are slightly out of their budget also. I'm going to show them the CNC option, but it will have to be something like the conversational, or "Teach Me" software for them to get it.... Primarily we're looking at a manual engine lathe...

Thanks for the input thus far and keep it coming!!

 

[EdDanzer]

First the disclaimer, what I say is from a bad warranty experience. I purchased a new Victor S2260S lathe and put it in service the week of November 12, 2001. I was just doing some simple proto type parts but was having some problem with the feed gear box popping out of gear. It wasn’t until I had to do threading that this was a real problem, then the cover on the change gear opened up and let the oil run out. The problem was 2 bolts were stripped at the factory and glued in. I fixed that problem and they gave me a $100.00 credit toward the next purchase. Then in February, 2002 I had to do some production machining of a part that required 97 lbs of steel to be removed. The chuck came loose from the spindle and tried throwing a 120lbs part at me. The chuck came loose because the spindle was improperly ground at the factory. After 2 weeks of fighting they agreed to replace the spindle. Their mechanic showed up without the correct tools and had to use a hammer and punch to remove and install the bearing nut. During this time we noticed a gear that had excessive wear. The crash damaged the new $2500.00 Rohm steel chuck and the OD turning tool beyond repair.
After spending $750.00 in attorney fees and raising hell at IMTS they finally fixed the machine in September, 2002, but the will not replace the damaged chuck or turning tool.
This machine has a Delta/Y starting motor, which means it takes time to accelerate up to speed. The gap filler is to short, so the way wipers go over the end of the ways when you get close to the chuck causing contamination to the Turcite. The cross slide needs constant adjustment. The bolt and nut to clamp the tailstock has stripped. All this happened to a machine with less than 300 hours of use.
I purchased 2 different new Tarnow TUJ50M lathes over the years and never had any problems. The first machine was purchased in 1980 and we did heavy machining, if the insert got dull it would stall the 20 hp motor. It was relegated to repair and deburring in 1996 when we needed longer centers and purchased a new one with 120” centers. Both machines were sold in 2000, what a mistake!
I did get what I paid for with the Victor, ½ the cost ¼ the machine.
I now have a use Dainichi F50X2000 CNC turning center, it works ok so the Victor does repair and deburring. If I could find a HT40G Hitachi Seiki, that’s what works the best for parts in the 1” to 20” diameter range. The machines are quick to setup, powerful and low maintenance.

Ed Danzer

 

[EdDanzer]

I forgot to add, the steady rest on my Victor is made so the knobs and clamp interfere with the cross slide. The effectis that you cannot have the steady rest at the end of the shaft and face off the part without a special setup.
If you have no machinist a manual lathe will be useless. Try mfgquote.com and sub out the work.

 

[Legrand]

Ed,
Thanks a million for the detailed information. Really an eye opener. We're looking for something that's of relative decent quality and your information will surely help us in that respect. I'm still looking... right now the Sharpe 14" X 40" Lathe seems to fit our size. Again, I have little experience with them, or the other "simpler possibility" a brand called Acra. Hopefully I will hear from some people with experience with these lathes.

Thanks again.

Legrand