Qualify welders similar code

[Thuhuongengineer]

Our welders had qualified API1104 with ER70S-6/E7018 but now He welded pressure vessels design by ASME with the same welding consumable as ER70S-6/E7018. He have good performance. We understand that don't have change about qualify of weld joint but Third party can not acceptable because it suitable by rule.
So in ASME IX can be accept welders qualify similar code (API 1104 or DNV-OS-F101)

 

[tamal1475]

You have to make a new WPS as per ASME Section IX. However, you may qualify the WPS with the PQR made for API if it covers all tests that are required by ASME Section IX. You need not carry out new qualification welds.

 

[Thuhuongengineer]

Thichness, OD, Acceptance Criteria RT are meet two code ASME and API 1104. The problems is rule not is technical so Third party not accept.

 

[DekDee]

There is a huge difference between the RT acceptance criterias of ASME IX and API 1104.
There are also major differences between base metal thicknesses and diameters.
Really a case of apples and oranges,
Cheers,
DD

 

[gtaw]

The method of evaluating the welder's performance test coupons are very different when testing to API 1104 and ASME Section IX.

The RT acceptance criteria is different when comparing API to ASME. API is not nearly as stringent as ASME.

If the welder is not qualified by RT, then ASME requires the coupon to be evaluated by guided bend tests. API 1104 uses the nick-break test to evaluate the weld soundness. They are very different and are in no-way similar or equivalent.

Your TPI was correct in stating the welders were not qualified to weld to ASME requirements.

As noted by an early response, the welder must follow a WPS qualified in accordance with ASME Section IX when welding the test coupons. Again, the qualification requirements are very different when qualifying a WPS to ASME. The specific ASME construction code (Section I, Section VIII, B31.1, etc.)must be considered in addition to Section IX because the construction code may modify the test regiment. This holds true for the welder qualification as well. For example, if you are going to be working in accordance with ASME B31.3 on piping that has been classified as "high pressure" the welder must be qualified by guided bend tests only. RT is not an option in that case.

Best regards - Al

 

[SectionIX]

And to further the points made above:

++ The plunger radius for bends for ASME and API is different.

++ For gas service, welder qualification for compression facility work requires destructive testing; qualification via radiography/NDE is not acceptable (49CFR Part 192.229)

++ ETC. ETC....

 

[Thuhuongengineer]

Dear Getns,
We know that many differences between the ASME IX and API 1104 however my question questions in cases, one welders qualify as API 104 thickness 10mm position 6G, RT film do not any defect, bend test do not defect. So this welders can production weld thickness 10mm position 1G with WPS qualify by ASME IX.

I think that the performance of this welders no change in this cases, and this welders can be weld good soundness this joint. we can raise STQ and total accpeted

 

[SectionIX]

Which code are you testing your welders to...API or ASME?

The only way to qualify to both is to use an ASME IX WPS, and test to ASME IX criteria, then make a second weld using an API 1104 WPS, and test to API 1104 criteria.

This is not a performance issue; it's following the requirements of the relevant code/specification. API and ASME have different requirements for welding procedure content, number of tests, type of test, sample size, acceptance criteria, etc.

The is no clause in either 1104 or ASME IX that allows certification to another code/specification, and this is the driving point.

Simply put, you cannot perform a single weld test to qualify for ASME and expect API certifications, and vice versa.

 

[gtaw]

Consider the fact that both ASME and API require the welder to follow a qualified WPS when welding the test coupon. The mechanics of the qualification of the WPS is very different when qualifying to API and ASME. The type of tests required, the number of tests required, the preparation of the test samples are different and the acceptance criteria are different.

If the decision was made before hand and a careful analysis of the essential variable, testing requirements, and acceptance criteria was considered before the testing is started, it would be possible to develop a program that could meet both ASME and API. However, it can not be an after thought because the two welding standards are so different. They are not an easy mesh.

Comparing ASME Section IX requirements to the requirements of API 1104 are like comparing two cousins. They may have similar family lineage (welding), but they are two entirely different people with different parents, different color hair, different color eyes, one is short and stout and the tall and lean. I'm sure your spouse would have some concerns if you were to suggest a simple substitution for an evening two.

Let's not forget that the ASME construction code often modifies the testing requirements of the WPS as well as the welder performance qualification requirements. It adds another level of complexity to the cake batter. This last point is often overlooked by contractors when they attempt to use a WPS that was qualified for work to one ASME construction code to a different ASME construction code. A good example of that would be a WPS and a welder qualified for welding on a project constructed to ASME Section I and then trying to apply them to a project where the requirements of ASME B31.3 with the fluid service category is "High Pressure." It is not going to be acceptable unless by some fortunate confluence of events the welder was qualified by guided bend tests and all the additional requirements imposed by B31.3 for High Pressure Fluid Service.

Best regards - Al