Question about Entry-Level Engineering Jobs

[CaptainFast]

Hey everyone,

I'm now looking for my first job after graduating with a master's degree in electrical and computer engineering. I'm having a hard time just finding entry-level jobs I'm qualified for, and I'm looking for some clarification about what jobs (in terms of experience) I should be applying for.

I was hoping that having a master's degree would qualify me for a job slightly above entry level. I expected to find job posts seeking someone with a couple years of experience and/or an advanced degree. Unfortunately, most job posts require at least a few years of experience for anything above entry level. Entry-level jobs requiring or desiring a master's degree seem rare.

I was a graduate assistant for two years while I worked on my master's degree. As a graduate assistant, I did a lot of things real engineers do. I designed and analyzed things, sourced parts and equipment, collected data in the field, worked with machinists to build things, built things myself, and the list goes on. Even though I wasn't doing this full time, I feel like I have as much experience as an engineer who has been working for at least a year or so.

My main question is should I claim this time as a graduate assistant as experience and apply for jobs requiring a year or two of experience? Do the people choosing candidates to interview typically agree with me that I have some experience? I know I'm not alone; how do others with masters' degrees approach this?

Thanks for your help!

 

[IRstuff]

I don't see why you would have left it off your resume in the first place. Highlighting of certain significant accomplishments would have also been reasonable to include.

TTFN

FAQ731-376
Chinese prisoner wins Nobel Peace Prize

 

[GregLocock]

Well you have just run into the great conundrum of advanced degrees. Your academic supervisors probably told you that a masters was a path to glory. One day you may indeed be able to use that additional academic experience to your employer's benefit. One day.

FWIW in Australia up until last year at least, the starting salaries for engineers with advanced degrees were consistently lower than for those without.

Cheers

Greg Locock


New here? Try reading these, they might help FAQ731-376

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[steellion]

The Master's degree may help you get your foot in the door, may mean a slight bump in initial starting salary, but you are still considered an entry-level employee and that is the type of work you should be looking for.

 

[CaptainFast]

I don't see why you would have left it off your resume in the first place. Highlighting of certain significant accomplishments would have also been reasonable to include.

I have included it on my resume. I just haven't been applying for jobs requiring experience. I would like to be applying for jobs requiring a few years of experience because those jobs seem more interesting and plentiful. I suppose I might as well just apply for them. I've got nothing to lose.

Your academic supervisors probably told you that a masters was a path to glory. One day you may indeed be able to use that additional academic experience to your employer's benefit. One day.

No, no one ever made that claim to me. I just wanted an advanced degree because I felt my undergraduate education only scratched the surface of the discipline, and I wanted to do original research. I figured having a master's degree couldn't hurt my career. Perhaps I was wrong.

Even if it does end up hurting my career, I'm glad I got the master's. I wish I could afford to get my Ph.D. now. There's more to life than careers and money.

 

[brandonbw]

Until you have worked for a company you are entry level. Why would you get your PHD?

There may be more to life, except going to school isn't free.

B+W Engineering and Design
Los Angeles Civil and Structural Engineering

http://bwengr.com

 

[KENAT]

Sure apply to jobs requiring a year or two of experience.

Don't misrepresent yourself though, while it can be subtle make sure it's clear what the experience was.

A lot of places will count Masters as a year or two of experience, combined with your other experience, applying for a job requiring a couple of years experience isn't too much of a reach.

Worst they can do is say no, or more likely just not respond as seems the vogue these days.

Posting guidelines faq731-376

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(probably not aimed specifically at you)
What is Engineering anyway: faq1088-1484​

 

[CaptainFast]

Until you have worked for a company you are entry level. Why would you get your PHD?

There may be more to life, except going to school isn't free.

I would like to have a Ph.D. for a couple reasons. The main one is that in the course of getting a Ph.D., I would do a dissertation. By doing the research needed to do a dissertation, you expand human knowledge. You figure something out that no one before you has figured out. That's not something I've ever done before, and I can't think of anything I would rather accomplish. The other reason for wanting a Ph.D. is it would allow me to be a research scientist or professor, which are both jobs I think I would love.

Sure apply to jobs requiring a year or two of experience.

Don't misrepresent yourself though, while it can be subtle make sure it's clear what the experience was.

A lot of places will count Masters as a year or two of experience, combined with your other experience, applying for a job requiring a couple of years experience isn't too much of a reach.

Worst they can do is say no, or more likely just not respond as seems the vogue these days.

This seems like the most reasonable approach to me. It might be a waste of time, but I've got plenty of time for filling out applications, anyway.

You're absolutely right about not getting responses. I thought that must be normal for companies to ignore you. It makes me wonder if they ignore their employees as much as their job applicants. I think employers' totally ignoring applicants is a more egregious violation of professional etiquette than my applying for some jobs for which I have some doubt they will consider me fully qualified based on my experience. On the rare occasion a company contacts me about a position I'm not interested in, I always at least give them a response letting them know I'm not interested and why.

Thanks to all of you for your thoughts.

 

[IRstuff]

"By doing the research needed to do a dissertation, you expand human knowledge. You figure something out that no one before you has figured out. ... The other reason for wanting a Ph.D. is it would allow me to be a research scientist or professor, which are both jobs I think I would love."

Oy vey! But, here's the reason why most companies shy away from Masters candidates; they're not sure if the guy isn't going to bail and get a PhD, or is really looking for a research/academic position. Most of the MS candidates I see get grilled on that specific subject more than anything else, particularly as an MSEE is not particularly more proficient at design than a BSEE.

TTFN

FAQ731-376
Chinese prisoner wins Nobel Peace Prize

 

[CaptainFast]

Oy vey! But, here's the reason why most companies shy away from Masters candidates; they're not sure if the guy isn't going to bail and get a PhD, or is really looking for a research/academic position. Most of the MS candidates I see get grilled on that specific subject more than anything else, particularly as an MSEE is not particularly more proficient at design than a BSEE.

Dang it, I got asked that very question during a job interview--whether I was interested in eventually getting a Ph.D.--and I responded by saying I likely would be. The interviewer responded by telling me the company would be supportive of that. I was thinking "Yes! I want this job!" Was he probably just messing with me? Maybe that's why I never heard back from them. Doh!

 

[IRstuff]

It's unclear, there are jobs out there that are research-oriented, and a PhD candidate who's taking advantage of the educational reimbursement is certainly captive labor for the duration. But, for other jobs, a PhD candidate is likely to be distracted from the primary job requirements.

TTFN

FAQ731-376
Chinese prisoner wins Nobel Peace Prize

 

[CaptainFast]

I have another question about something I've been thinking about trying. I haven't been able to get many interviews, so I'm trying to find ways of making my resume stand out. What I'm thinking about doing is indicating prominently on my resume that I'm willing to work for a trial period (maybe 3 to 6 months) without compensation. I think this should get an employer's attention and mitigate a lot of their anxiety about hiring a new employee. This way they don't have much to lose even if I turn out to be completely useless. Has anyone tried this tactic, and if so, how did it work?

 

[tygerdawg]

I would like to have a Ph.D. for a couple reasons. The main one is that in the course of getting a Ph.D., I would do a dissertation. By doing the research needed to do a dissertation, you expand human knowledge. You figure something out that no one before you has figured out. That's not something I've ever done before, and I can't think of anything I would rather accomplish. The other reason for wanting a Ph.D. is it would allow me to be a research scientist or professor, which are both jobs I think I would love.

Admirable. Noble. Naive.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p4AXPMkrVq4

(sorry, no offense meant...I've just got my Mardi Gras mood goin' on )

Carry on, soldier.

TygerDawg
Blue Technik LLC
Virtuoso Robotics Engineering

http://www.bluetechnik.com

 

[moltenmetal]

Since I'd HATE to see engineering go the way of "professions" like journalism (where unpaid internships are the norm in some locales), I'd suggest you DON'T offer to work for free in return for experience!

This is just one of many reasons I think engineers should be only educated in a co-op program environment...nobody should graduate from an engineering program with a Masters' or PhD degree and zero industrial experience. The marketplace understandably has a hard time using people like that.

I understand your frustration, but please don't de-value the services of everyone else like you in order to find a job for yourself. All you're likely to get out of this is exploitation.

 

[TED7]

I would be careful being overly positive about wanting to further your education / progress to management. I was told by a senior engineer when I was looking for a position the following two statements.

-Prospective applicants who want to further their education will cost more to employ than those who don't and will spend less time doing work and more time 'educating' themselves in matters the current staff could teach them.

-Applicants who want to progress through the company are likely to be less enthusiastic about their own job and more enthusiastic about taking mine.

I found once I changed my tune accordingly, I was more successful. The fact I still want my managers parking space is beside the point.

Will Walters
Sheffield UK
Designer of machine tools - user of modified screws

 

[graybeach]

I been involved in hiring lately, and I must sat that a PhD can be a turn off. I try to keep an open mind, but I have had too many negative experiences trying to do practical work with PhDs. Many other engineers I know feel this way so you should keep this desire to yourself, at least until you get your foot in the door somewhere.

Another turn off, and really a deal breaker in this "buyers" market: Spelling, formatting, and grammatical errors in resumes and cover letters. This shows a lack of attention to detail, a lack of self examination, and poor writing skills.