Question on Ethics 1

[Lion06]

Sorry for the re-post, but this got kicked out of the structural engineering section. It got kicked out before I had a chance to read any of the responses.

I've been running a job in CA for several months now. I was involved in the design peripherally, but when the project engineer left the CA got dropped in my lap. It is an existing building renovation and addition, and there are a number of things that I have noticed that seem odd in the sense that I'm surprised that this is the way a project engineer of this person's caliber left this project.

I have been looking at these areas as I have a chance to and can generally rationalize my concerns away, but am still surprised at the approach. Should I be rigorously verifying all of these conditions that concern me or look odd(which I've been trying to do by either analysis or rationalization) or assume that the project engineer (with much more experience than I have, I would add) has it right and just go on my merry way?

It's been a real drain on my time and I'm not getting any relief on other projects. I just wanted to get some input on this.

 

[photoengineer]

First of all, are you a licensed Professional Engineer or still an EIT?

 

[Lion06]

Still an EIT. I'm taking the exam in 5 weeks. I guess I should start studying!!

 

[nutte]

Why did it get kicked out? It certainly seems applicable to me.

First, have you brought your concern to the attention of your supervisors in the company? That is probablty a good move, if you're sure there's a concern.

Second, I'd say you're doing the right thing, checking items that you find suspicious. However, if your doubts are always reassured, perhaps this would lead you to be less suspicious.

 

[Lion06]

I guess someone flagged it for not being "technical". I've brought several concerns to my boss - most we rationalize away together, but there have been at least 3 that required sketches and to do something different than was shown on the drawings. I always try to think through it myself first and have a position (either for or against) and use my boss more as a reassuring eye.

 

[B16A2]

When an engineer leaves the firm before CA is performed, another engineer from your company should be assigned to the project to see the design through. The jurisdiction should be notified of this change.

This is especially true for existing building renovations where there are always hidden items that are not uncovered until the CA stage.

If you think there's something wrong with the design, then fix it. It is now your responsibility. If you're an EIT, then it is your bosses responsibility.

 

[Lion06]

BA-
The other engineer left after design was complete, but before CA started. There was no design to "see through". I'm only stumbling upon things during times where I am reviewing shops, responding to RFI's, or just perusing the drawings for my own benefit.

Just because I think there's an issue doesn't necessarily mean there is........... and that is the crux of my question. Do I need to go and look at everything that looks off to me or can I make a good faith assumption that unless something looks downright wrong that the design engineer has things right? If I had all the time in the world I wouldn't even ask the question, I would just review everything, but I live in the real world and don't have that much time.

 

[KENAT]

Maybe they thought forum765 would be a better place for an ethics question - as suggested by your title.

I could offer general comments about picking up a ball of chalk from another guy you'd have expected better of...

However, given your industry, I wonder if there are legal or similar issues such as those B16A2 brings up, so I'll leave it to your fellow structural's unless you want general comments.

Posting guidelines faq731-376

http://eng-tips.com/market.cfm?

(probably not aimed specifically at you)
What is Engineering anyway: faq1088-1484​

 

[IRstuff]

Sounds to me that you need to scan through everything quickly, and then rank order any concerns you find and act accordingly.

TTFN

FAQ731-376

 

[Ron]

SEIT...don't assume that because the Engineer in Responsible Charge has more years than you that his work exhibits some inordinate degree of competence. While we all hope that it works that way, it just doesn't. You know your capabilities...you have a good sense of engineering..a "feel" for it, if you will.

Don't let the experience issue deter you from raising questions and eliciting proper response from your supervisors. Remember, his "project engineering" could result in a liability to your company that the principals need to know and they need to know now, not later. If your concerns are unfounded, so what..at least you got them out there and maybe learned something in the process. If they are well-founded, then you probably will have saved your company a lot of grief and ill-will.

Go do what you think is right...you're usually on target.

 

[hokie66]

Took me a while before I realized your weren't running a job in CAlifornia. Still don't know what CA means...OK, probably construction administration. Hate acronyms.

This is not an uncommon situation, and I have been in it several times. My principle has always been that to oversee construction, I have to understand and agree with the design.

 

[IRstuff]

Compliance/Contract Audit was my guess, after rejecting California and Canada.

TTFN

FAQ731-376

 

[Lion06]

Holier nailed the acronym. Thanks everyone, I appreciate the feedback.

 

[B16A2]

Seeing the design through on a renovation often means discovering and designing during CA.

Your bosses should be able to ascertain the condition of the set. If they dont want to give you the time to recheck designs, then it's the risk that they're taking for you. I would move on and consider it another strike against the company... you are looking to leave right?

If something fails, your company gets sued. The EOR may not have been working in the best interest of your company if he was about to leave. IMHO, depending on the project, it could be a big risk.

 

[Lion06]

Sorry for changing your name on you Hokie. The iPhone does that to me sometimes.

 

[Ron]

So now hokie66 is God?

 

[rowingengineer]

only on fridays in the structural forum.

An expert is a man who has made all the mistakes which can be made in a very narrow field

 

[hokie66]

I noticed that, but wasn't going to complain.

 

[rscassar]

SEIT,

You are a very competant engineer and if you are concerned with something then you should do with what you think is the ethical thing to do. Structural Engineers hold a specific duty of care to the community much the same as doctors, and if you pass off a concerning item as "I'm sure the project engineer looked at it" would be considered negligent. I am not having a personel attack on you, I find your posts on the structural engineering forum to be very insightful and display a great deal of knowledge.

I actually found myself in a position very similar to yourself early in my career (refurbishment job) and saw a colleague give advice which I can only describe as unethical. I was very vocal in voicing my concern that it actually led me to being laid off. Still to this day I do not regret anything that I did and maintain that I rather had been temporarily unemployed that be responsible for something which could potentially cost someone their life.

 

[Ron]

kikflip...way to go! Too bad some others don't have that commitment.