Quick Poll: Normal for Raise to be given AFTER a Promotion? 3

[FoxSE14]

Hello All,

Title sums it up best. Summary below:

I work for an engineering firm with under 1000 employees and was recently promoted to a senior position within the production staff. I've worked hard for this, am a heavy lifter on our team, and regularly contribute to things outside of my job description to help run our branch. I was very excited to receive the news of the promotion. My immediate manager has been generally supportive throughout my tenure under him, and any complaints I have are minor and "water off my back". I think we have a great personal and professional relationship overall. I am very happy with my job with respect to the day-to-day work and, in general, the company benefits. There's been other recent positive developments re: training and involvement with staff hiring that lead me to believe I have a future here, too.

The exception over the last two years is compensation. I've felt underpaid the last two years and have shared this during my recent performance review, supported with plenty of qualitative (clients and subordinates like me) and quantitative/financial data illustrating the breadth and depth of my contributions across many areas of the business. I also have some outside evidence to support this, but haven't shared with my employer...yet (i.e. recruiters reaching out for similar positions as that I was performing before my promotion: having the low-end of their salary range be a bit above what I was/am making now). I am not the job market, but am considering dropping more frequent hints re: recruiters seeking me out regularly and some of the glimpses of salary they've given (I've dropped a few hints over last few years).

I've been given new business cards, email signature, department announcement was made, and clients are being billed for my new rate for some time now (~2 months). But I'm not seeing the pay yet. After explaining to my boss very recently, politely but firmly, that with each passing week I am feeling a bit used and why...I found it interesting that I was told during the conversation, in a wishy-washy fashion, that this is standard practice at our firm re: promotions...to have compensation changes at one defined time during the year. I do admit our annual review/raise process is fairly rigid (occurring within the same month each year). I sensed understanding with my side of things, but also that I may have slightly ruffled some feathers during the conversation. Later, follow-up was made with me and I was told that upper mgmnt wasn't sure what was taking so long for me to see the pay increase and accounting was given special directive to give the adjustment to my paycheck. Should take effect in two more weeks.

I find it very frustrating and unfair that even in the special case of a promotion occurring 'off-quarter' from normal salary adjustments, the pay increase would have to wait. Especially when I'm being billed out. Perhaps it's a corporate "strategy" that I just need to accept if I'm going to stay here? I don't entirely believe the stories I'm getting, but want to be open minded to my immediate supervisor possibly being caught in the middle. I'm interested in making things work with him...yet I don't know what my coming salary increase even amounts to yet. I'm feeling like no matter the amount, I should be asking for slightly more $ just to "get myself a win".

Have others run into similar situations? Suggestions for path forward? I think I know how to approach tactfully, but certainly will require some careful contemplation ahead of time. Admittedly, I'm really just looking for some outside perspective or a pep talk.

 

[CWB1]

That's a new one to me. I have seen promotions of title and/or position only however that didnt involve compensation, however if raises are included its usually effective as of that month. That said, it often takes the HR/payroll folks a few weeks to process.

 

[JohnRBaker]

Over my 49+ year professional career (now retired for 5+ years) every promotion that I've ever gotten was accompanied by an immediately adjustment in my compensation. Granted, I had a few lateral moves where things stayed the same, but that was understood up front, but promotions included raises, and in all cases, I also knew that up front.

Now, I'm only speaking for myself and I am aware of people who got promotions and didn't get a raise, but they worked in a different group then the one that my management team was responsible for, so I know it happens. BTW, I thought it was crap when heard about it then and my management concurred. And if you're wondering how I heard about something like this, it turned out the person who this happened to, his brother worked for me and he came to me hoping that I could perhaps help his brother out. That's when I went to my boss with the story and he verified that it was true, but said that it was not possible for him to force another group to change their policies. But he did tell me, and again he felt this was totally stupid, that the message he got back from that other group was that I should tell my subordinate, the brother, that his brother should have never said anything to him. OH sure, we should warn family members that they can't talk to each other. PLEASE!!!!

John R. Baker, P.E. (ret)
EX-'Product Evangelist'
Irvine, CA
Siemens PLM:
UG/NX Museum:

The secret of life is not finding someone to live with
It's finding someone you can't live without

 

[SuperSalad]

My strategy is; I do the work I am paid to do. This followed a period fairly early in my professional life of performing work I was not paid to do. I'm not in your position so take this for what it is worth, but if I were presented with something like that right now, I would inform them the work associated with the promotion will begin the day the paycheck reflects those responsibilities.

Andrew H.

http://www.MotoTribology.com

 

[DVWE]

Let this be a life-learning experience for you. Next time it happens, don't accept anything until your new salary is discussed, agreed upon, and signed.

The devil is in the details; she also wears prada.

 

[EnergyProfessional]

I think it is BS, but you should be able to find out if that really is corporate policy and applies to everyone.

Where I work we get paid bi-weekly and every adjustment is always the following pay period (they want to avoid paying part of a pay -period at 2 different rates).

Don't listen to the excuse it takes payroll a long time. This is done on a computer and they just need to change a setting. It takes exactly as long as the company wants it to take. It isn't like they need to design and print a new type of money. If they already announced the promotion, it is already approved by the higher ups.

If they never need to raise the pay, they could liberally promote everyone.

I'd be careful dropping hints or they can call your bluff and tell you to leave and hire on with some of those leads.

 

[Compositepro]

You should never refuse to explore a promising new job opportunity, particularly under your circumstances where you feel you may be being treated unfairly. The only way to know if it is in-fact unfair, is to see what your options really are. Too many people are unhappy because they have unrealistic expectations, when they should be grateful to have a job in a poor economy. Taking job interviews lets you practice your interview skills and become comfortable with the process. Not "needing" the job you are interviewing for puts you in a better negotiating position, which helps develop negotiation skills that most engineers seriously lack.

If you find that the other opportunities are not so great as imagined, you will be happier staying with your current job.

Everyone would like more money. But money, by itself, will not make you happy. What will make you happy? Feeling appreciated? That has more to do with the people you work with. Just remember that no one enjoys working with unhappy people, and that being openly unhappy can affect your career.

 

[271828]

I'm a little confused by: "Later, follow-up was made with me and I was told that upper mgmnt wasn't sure what was taking so long for me to see the pay increase and accounting was given special directive to give the adjustment to my paycheck. Should take effect in two more weeks."

This sounds like your supervisors are planning to raise your pay quickly.

Here's something that might help understanding their viewpoint. When your firm bills a client, it might be six months or longer until they get paid. Two weeks is nothing. Two months is next-to-nothing. It would've been nice if they looked at it from your point of view that a few weeks seems slow, but unfortunately that didn't happen. Even if they're billing for a higher rate, they might not see that money for months, so they're probably not fattening their wallet by billing for more and holding you the same.

From our keyhole view of your situation, I'd recommend focusing on the positives. Your esteem in the firm is improving. You have lots of good stuff going on. If the raise is any time soon, I'd try to ignore the delay. I wouldn't say anything else about it unless at least six months passes.

 

[RVAmeche]

Just to echo the other sentiments here: I'm still a young engineer (early 30s) and every promotion I've received had my pay increase start the following pay period. There may be hemming and hawing by management beforehand regarding if the promotion is "justified", but by the time the paper is in front of me and signed, its a done deal and effective (basically) immediately.

 

[271828]

BTW, I'm coming at this from an owner's perspective. Some firms are maddeningly rigid about payment policies.

For example, I sent an invoice for $3000 to a firm that is having a record year and probably a nearly $10M gross for the year. It has been over eight weeks and they still haven't paid. They're waiting until they get paid, and then they'll cut the check. They COULD cut the check at any moment, but they'll adhere to their rigid policy.

Maybe your firm is like that.

 

[EnergyProfessional]

OP: if I read it right you have been there for 2 years? Did you get regular raises/ And f so, how timely were those?

Did they actually tell you your "future" pay, or will you find out once you get it?

 

[dik]

I had an incident like that a few years back at a large engineering firm I was working for... but not me directly. We had a young, and really good (IMHO) fellow that just got registered... and the same 'horsekaka' about increase. I told the department manager that they could forgo my usual increase and increase the young guy's salary by that amount... he was powerless... it was an HR issue. The young guy was hired by a nearby competitor for nearly twice his salary. We still keep in touch. The neighbouring firm also 'scooped' a couple of other good guys, until management had a meeting with them to quit poaching.

I recently had a close friend die of cancer who was employed by them. She was doing senior engineering work, without the depth of exposure that comes with that position, but excellent work nontheless, and needed little supervision. The company was paying her, I found out after she left the firm, $15 per hour. She did not want the company to know of her passing... she was upset with them. I found this pay situation reprehensible and I'm still upset with the firm.

Rather than think climate change and the corona virus as science, think of it as the wrath of God. Feel any better?

-Dik

 

[FoxSE14]

271828 - Really appreciate the input from your perspective. Re: sentiment that they're raising pay "quickly" - mmmmm, disagree because it's only after I brought attention to the issue in a more stern fashion after 2 months of waiting and "kid glove" asking on my part. I see your larger point about focusing on the positives, and in the grand scheme of things this may all work itself out. Yes, agree 100%, as that aligns with my worldview as well...but in this case it's taking more conscious effort. I also understand your input on client pay...that is not the case here. Client payment is pretty quick (1 month or less) for us and is something I have daily insight to/proof of. Last counterpoint, with due respect - 6 months?? Do I understand, are you suggesting I wait 6 months to see if they increase my pay over that window? I hope I am misunderstanding, because that duration is asinine.

EP - Been here circa 5 years. See my OP above - pretty rigid on raise timing, not always guaranteed but when they're deserved, they're very regular (annual). Fortunately I've always had a decent one. The dollar amnt of the raise I'm waiting on is still unknown to me. When I circle back through old company announcements, however, I see promotions are given at all different times of the year. I have a hard time imagining that, suppose regular raise time is January 1, a promotion given in May requires waiting 7 months to see the pay increase.

Open to further input if it's out there.

 

[phamENG]

Fox - you say you work for a firm with under 1000 employees. I take it that it has more than 750 then? That's a very big firm. I cut my teeth at a firm doing several million a year with only 5 engineers, 4 draftsmen, and 3 admin folks. But my internship was with a national firm that had recently downsized back below 1500.

A lot depends on how the firm is managed. Does everything go through a central HR, or does your branch office have an independent HR rep that handles things? My big firm experience was a lot like my little firm experience because our HR was handled by somebody in our office. Responses were fast and thorough. I've heard horror stories, though, of folks at large corporations with centralized HR operations where you're just an employee number on a list that shows up on somebody's to-do list.

From what you've described, I think it's plausible that the paperwork went in and somebody missed something. You told your boss but weren't adamant about it so he didn't think you were too worried, he was busy so he wasn't too worried - after all, it is HR's job to finish the paperwork and they'll get to it - and that's that. Once you put your foot down, it got his attention, and he did something. Shouldn't have taken that, but there it is. Even good managers have bad days/weeks/months?

The proof will be in the pudding of the next couple of weeks. If there's still no movement, then demand to see the company policy that prevents you from getting your raise. If they can't produce one and still refuse to give you the raise, then you could take SuperSalad's approach of not doing the work you're not paid for. Be careful, though - bridges can be tough to un-burn.

 

[FoxSE14]

phamEng - It certainly feels like the scenario you suggest is probably what happened. Which explains my perception that my boss felt sympathy for me but that also his feathers were a bit ruffled. Believe someone up the chain dropped something around the time various HR staff apparently took spring break vacations, and my boss is now caught in the middle here. So...coming to terms with things based on those assumptions..for now. . Going to let some time pass, see what the amount of the raise is, and what else is said to me at that time... There's a thought floating in the back of my head still about asking for back pay, as I believe it's a reasonable request in my case. We'll see if I still think that's necessary around the corner here...thanks all.

 

[Rabbit12]

If there is a true "miscommunication" between your management and HR they should be able to retroactively pay you. I've had that happen before.

 

[271828]

FoxSE14, I think this is an interesting exercise in perspective.

The owners need to do a better job of anticipating how you see this situation, and take care of you.

From an owner's perspective, payment delays and profiting less than expected happen so often they become somewhat normal. Sometimes the disappointments have zeroes on the end. You might be close to looking petty to the owners, which would obviously be very costly over the long haul.

I'm looking through a keyhole here, so take it FWIW!

 

[Stenbrook]

In my experience with policies about pay, is that there always seems to be an exception to the rule, no matter how rigid the policy is. For instance, if an employer tells his employee that he can't give him a raise, so the employee goes and gets a job offer for more then his current salary and comes back to the current employer and says "I'm leaving to go get a higher pay somewhere else". If the employee is a valuable employee that the employer does not want to lose or would have a very difficult time replacing, they will likely match the offer right then and there, regardless of whether there is a policy against raises at random time of the years. The challenge you face is that you don't have an offer in hand, so your leverage is very little in terms of getting your employer to bump your pay.

 

[dik]

I sometimes think that there's a huge disconnect between work and HR...

Rather than think climate change and the corona virus as science, think of it as the wrath of God. Feel any better?

-Dik

 

[NorthCivil]

Sorry bud. you are nagging your boss for a raise, that should have showed up on your paycheck already, but you dont even know the value of the raise?

sounds like this should have been something nailed down during the promotion discussions. If it wasnt discussed then, how could management know that you expected a raise?

looks like you will have to wait until annual review time.