"The Shoes Warehouse" (Actually a retail store). Owners Cert.

[SprinklerDesigner2]

We got this "shoe warehouse" moving to town which is a 25,000 sq. ft. stand alone masonry and steel building. It does not have a suspended ceiling and it's 20'-0" to the underside of the roof deck.

The word "warehouse" is in the name but it's a retail store open to the public.

For my own protection I require an Owner's Certificate on every project I do. I don't want to jump to the conclusion it's a OH-2 Occupancy only to find out they are loaded with rubber boots on racks to 17' high. I don't think it is that high but who knows?

There is very little on the architectural drawings other than to fully sprinkler the building with a note stating I am responsible for determining the "exact hazard classification" which leads me to believe they've run into problems elsewhere around the country.

My gut feeling is this isn't OH-2 and all I am doing is wasting my time because you can be sure a competitor will bid it as a merchantile. Sometimes I think all I do is talk myself out of getting a contract.

So what do we have in a store area where we have shoes with rubber soles stacked on shelves to 8'? Is the store area considered mix storage?

See attachment for my request for an owners certificate.

The requirement for the Owners Certificate has been in the standard for a long time now but I wonder how many actually obtain one?

 

[SprinklerDesigner2]

Sorry, think I missed the attachment.

 

[TravisMack]

I require one on all storage projects I do. I then put a copy of it on the drawings for submittal.

Travis Mack
MFP Design, LLC

http://www.mfpdesign.com

 

[cdafd]

As a plan reviewer, depending on the project, I require documentation of what is going on in the building, and hopefuly the sprinkler designer has asked the same questions

 

[SprinklerDesigner2]

cdafd,

As a contractor all to often we don't know what is going into the building but we should.

What happens is we see a job to bid and being a shoe store we just assume it's OH2 because it's a mercantile. Works 99% of the time but all you need is that one time it's not and you can be in trouble should you lack the Owners Certificate as called for in 13.

In our proposal to the general contractor or owner we tell them what we are designing to, figuring that keeps us safe, but lacking an Owners Certificate you can be in real trouble.

A close family member is a lawyer and after explaining the owners certificate he advised me to get one every time. Say I designed a shoe store for OH2 and at final inspection it was found the 8,000 sq. ft. storage/receiving area had rubber rain boots stacked to 14' high. The system is turned down, I go to the owner wanting an change order, after all I told them in my proposal I was designing to OH2, but in court the contractor would lose. They would lose because 13 says the contractor shall obtain an owners certificate but didn't. Negligent, they didn't do what they were required to do by the standard. The sprinkler contractor could end up doing the change order for free.

We could say we specified OH2 in our proposal but lacking an owners certificate a lawyer could quickly embarrass anybody clinging to that as a defense by making them look incompetent.

One of the questions I have is if shoes are set on racks, open faced bin boxes actually, for sale is it considered storage? What about open faced bin boxes full with rubber soled shoes stacked 8' high having 4' aisles in a 25,000 sq. ft. store?

Lots of rubber in tennis shoes.

My guess is the majority of jobs are done without an owners certificate.

 

[cdafd]

Nice to know a lawyer who will give you sound advice

And thank you for trying to submit good plans

 

[stookeyfpe]

It's scary what people are doing in unlimited area buildings. It doesn't matter if it's 25K or 250K square feet in area, everyone thinks that a sprinklered building will never burn to the ground.

Just so you know, if I ever win Powerball, I will set up a $30 million fire testing foundation to deal with all this wierd stuff since no one wants to pay for testing but AHJs and designers continue to be asked to be the designer.

Scary times folks, scary times.