"Tortex" Guitar Picks

[Pud]

Does anyone have any idea what Tortex (tm) is?

Google just turns up zillions of picks for sale and Wikipedia only says it was developed by Jim Dunlop as a replacement for tortoise shell.

When burned it looks styrenic - e.g. yellow flame and black smoke, but does not have the familiar smell. It also burns with difficulty unlike styrenics.

Cheers


Harry

 

[Demon3]

I assume it's a standard polymer with some additives in it as you can't afford to make a whole new polymer just for guitar picks.

I also see from Google that nylon 6 and POM/Acetal work fine for picks. I would imagine that many thermoplastics would work well. What properties are you especially looking for? If you want something with a natural touch then I would try cellulose acetate proprionate (from Eastman), it has a special feel and it used for professional screw driver handles.


There is not any memory with less satisfaction than the memory of some temptation we resisted.
- James Branch Cabell

 

[Demon3]

This site seems very useful and even mentions cellulose acetate for picks and where to get it.

http://www.lutherie.net/picks.html

There is not any memory with less satisfaction than the memory of some temptation we resisted.
- James Branch Cabell

 

[Pud]

Hi Demon3,

Thanks for your replies - I am aware of all the usual stuff picks are made of (we make them too!).

I wanted to know what this Tortex stuff is...


Cheers


Harry

 

[Demon3]

Hi Pud,

Sorry, didn't see it was you posting. If I had I wouldn't have made such elementary comments. If I had one I could analyse it. What is especially good about that material from a pick point of view? I am not a guitar player. How does it's performance compare to the other polymer picks? Are you just curious to know what the material is or do you want to be able to find something similar?


There is not any memory with less satisfaction than the memory of some temptation we resisted.
- James Branch Cabell

 

[patprimmer]

The link above says it is Delrin, however your burn test says not so.

Jim Dunlop site lists Nylon, Acetal, Celluloid and Tortex, indicating it is something different to those listed.

Not slippery hard wearing indicates maybe polyurethane or filled urethane, or maybe polycarbonate or polyester or even "Hytrel/Arnitel" type materials.

These are pretty wild guesses from the limited info supplied.

If you want to send me a sample to look at, I can be contacted through PIMA at

http://www.pima.asn.au

Regards

eng-tips, by professional engineers for professional engineers
Please see FAQ731-376 for tips on how to make the best use of Eng-Tips Fora.

 

[Pud]

Pat, I think you may be correct with the PU. I have done a burn test on an unfilled elastomeric version and that burns very similar to the picks.

It may be a filled, rigid version.

I have send some to one of suppliers of PU to let them have a look/smell of it.

Will keep you posted....


Cheers


Harry

 

[Demon3]

Excellent! Yes, PU and other elastomers are very wear resistant. What is your goal Pud? Do you want to make something similar?


There is not any memory with less satisfaction than the memory of some temptation we resisted.
- James Branch Cabell

 

[Pud]

Hi Demon3,

We already make them out of Styrolux (who are BASF anyway?) as it is easy to print and process. The wear properties of these are not important as (believe it or not) the majority are made into coleector's sets or jewelery. (check Ebay!)

We (well, our customer) are about to purchase tooling for another range of picks, and our customer would love to have them made from this mysterious "Tortex"(tm), as it is "the" industry standard.

Cheers


Harry

 

[Demon3]

Thanks for that information. I didn't know Styrolux was used for that. One thing you could consider is blending Styrolux with Styroflex. The latter is an elastomeric SBS, much softer that Styrolux. They should be miscible so you would be able to make a whole range of different hardness picks just by changing the ratio of the two. If you need harder picks then you could put in a bit of polystyrene, that should also mix.

By the way, does anyone make laminate picks? I am just guessing but I can imagine it might be nice to have a central layer of some stiffer material with a hard wearing elastomer coated on it. Do such structures exist? You've really got my imagination running on these picks!

Are there any ionomer picks (Surlyn / Iotek)? That's really hard wearing (i.e. used for golf ball covers and flooring).


There is not any memory with less satisfaction than the memory of some temptation we resisted.
- James Branch Cabell

 

[Pud]

Ok guys, here it the answer:

glass filled polycarbonate!!!!!!!!!

You could have knocked me down with a feather (long chain proteins...)

Demon3 - picks need to be stiff and no break when bent in half! Remember, they were originally produced from natural tortoiseshell (which I guess is the same chemically as hair and feathers - keratin?) - some research for you!!

We do occasionally add PS if our customer wants some stiffer ones. I guess we are the only manufacturer of Styrolux picks (BASF marketing dept welcome!!)

Your idea of laminate picks is good - but the cost implications would mean no market...wear is not a problem really - they (users) just bin them when worn.

Thanks all for your inputs.


Cheers


Harry

 

[Demon3]

Brilliant! How are these picks made? I assume injection molded. I read one site that was making them from sheets. If injection molded it might not be easy to make a multilayer part but if stamped from sheets then I guess you could coextrude a sheet of different plastics cheaply then stamp the picks from that.

I read somewhere of a person who wanted to make a pick of magnetic material so you could attach it to your guitar with a magnet. If you're interested in that then you could use magnetite (tradename MagniF from

http://www.minelco.com/index.asp?Id=8&prodId=97)

or carbonyl iron as filler.

If you want to make something like the glass fibre filled polycarbonate then you could try mica or wollastonite as filler, in this way you can get similar mechanical properties without the legal issues of copying the Tortex formulation.


There is not any memory with less satisfaction than the memory of some temptation we resisted.
- James Branch Cabell

 

[plasgears]

A little off the subject, but in the movie industry they had an expression that a really bad movie film would best be converted to guitar picks, though I can't vouch for that choice of material.

 

[Demon3]

In the old days the film was cellulose nitrate so it sounds possible from the materials performance perspective. Would therefore probably work for newer film plastic too then, not sure what that is maybe PET.

Checked here

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Photographic_film

"Photographic film is a sheet of plastic (polyester, nitrocellulose or cellulose acetate)" so yes it would work.


There is not any memory with less satisfaction than the memory of some temptation we resisted.
- James Branch Cabell

 

[patprimmer]

Not a coincidence I think, but Eastman Kodak was prominent in Cellulosics and PET.

As far as I know, PET is still the current choice.

Regards

eng-tips, by professional engineers for professional engineers
Please see FAQ731-376 for tips on how to make the best use of Eng-Tips Fora.