QW-403.5 Group number 1

[mmmiscs]

hi there, based on your perusal to QW-403.5 (ASME IX), could someone explain and example for each paragraph below:

General comment: this QW-403.5 is implied that the P number will be the same, only assess to Group number.

1st paragraph: "For ferrous materials in Table QW/QB-422, a procedure qualification shall be made for each P‐Number Group Number combination of base metals, even though procedure qualification tests have been made for each of the two base metals welded to itself"

2nd paragraph: "If, however, two or more qualification records have the same essential and supplementary essential variables, except that the base metals are assigned to different Group Numbers within the same P‐Number, then the combination of base metals is also qualified"

3rd paragraph: "In addition, when base metals of two different P‐Number Group Number combinations are qualified using a single test coupon, that coupon qualifies the welding of those two P‐Number Group Numbers to themselves as well as to each other using the variables qualified."

 

[metengr]

First, if you review QW-250 you will see that QW-403.5 in each case pertains as a supplementary essential welding variable for impact qualification of a WPS. So, for welding with no impact qualification, Group No is not an essential welding variable, meaning it does not apply only the P-No designation applies.

If the WPS is qualified for impact, variables like QW-403.5 apply simply because the Group number affects performance of the material for low temperature service (impact testing necessary). Beyond this, I don't know what is needed it is self explanatory for limits to WPS qualification with Group number.

WPS P-No 1 Group 1 to P-No 1 Group 2 WPS requires qualification for impact use.

PQR 1 P-No 1 Group 1 PQR 2 P-No 1 Group 2 means you can combine and have a WPS qualified

P-No 1 Gr 1 to P-No 3 Gr 2 using a single coupon, you have WPS's for P-No 1 to Gr 1 to P-No 1 Gr 1 combination and P-No 3 to Gr 2 to P-No 3 Gr 2 combination and finally P-No 1 to Gr 1 to P-No 3 to Gr 2.

 

[fleischfresser]

Hi,

2nd paragraph means:
PQR A: P-No.1 Gr. 1 to P-No.1 Gr. 1 and PQR B: P-No.1 Gr. 2 to P-No.1 Gr. 2 support
WPS 1: P-No.1 Gr. 1 to P-No.1 Gr. 1
WPS 2: P-No.1 Gr. 2 to P-No.1 Gr. 2 and
WPS 3: P-No.1 Gr. 1 to P-No.1 Gr. 2
Interpretation: IX-86-15
Subject: Section IX, QW-403.5
Date Issued: March 13, 1986
File: BC85-532
Question: A WPS has been qualified to satisfy all requirements, including notch toughness, for welding P-No. 1, Group 1 base metals. Another WPS has been qualified to satisfy all requirements, including notch toughness, for welding P-No. 1, Group 2 base metals. If all the variables, except for the change in base metal group number in the two WPSs are the same, may a third WPS be written to permit welding of P-No. 1, Group 1 to P-No. 1, Group 2 base metals using the PQRs from the first two WPSs to support the third WPS without additional qualification for the change in base metal group numbers?
Reply: Yes.

3nd paragraph means:

​

PQR A: P-No.1 Gr. 1 to P-No.1 Gr. 2
support
WPS 1: P-No.1 Gr. 1 to P-No.1 Gr. 1
WPS 2: P-No.1 Gr. 2 to P-No.1 Gr. 2 and
WPS 3: P-No.1 Gr. 1 to P-No.1 Gr. 2
Interpretation: VIII-1-95-06
Subject: Section VIII, Division 1 (1992 Edition, 1993 Addenda);  UG-84(h)(2)(a)
Date Issued: July 22, 1994
File: BC94-292
Question: A procedure qualification test plate consisting of P-No. 1 Group No. 1 material welded to P-No. 1 Group No. 2 material meets the impact toughness criteria for the weld and heat affected zones under UG-84(h)(2)(a). Can this test plate support the production welding of P-No. 1 Group No. 1 to P-No. 1 Group No. 1, P-No. 1 Group No. 2 to P-No. 1 Group No. 2, and P-No. 1 Group No. 1 to P-No. 1 Group No. 2 materials, assuming all other applicable requirements of the Code have been met?
Reply: Yes.

I don´t agree with the last sentence of metengr. The 3nd paragraph works only, if the P-No. is the same and only the Group-No. are different.
Interpretation: IX-89-75
Subject: Section IX; QW-403.5, QW-403.11, and QW-424
Date Issued: September 20, 1990
File: BC90-443
Question (1): A procedure qualification using the SMAW process in a V-groove joint has been qualified with acceptable bends, tensiles and charpy V-notch impact specimens, using P-No. 1 Group 2 material welded to a P-No. 3 Group 3 material. Does the procedure qualification support the welding of P-No. 1 Group 2 material together when notch toughness tests are required?
Reply (1): No.
Question (2): Does the procedure qualification support the welding of P-No. 1 Group 2 material to P-No. 3 Group 3 material?
Reply (2): Yes.
Question (3): Does the procedure qualification support the welding of P-No. 3 Group 3 material together?
Reply (3): No




Regards - Juergen

 

[ElCidCampeador]

So if I have a PQR P-No.1 Gr.1 to P-No.1 Gr.2, without impact test required, I could use it for a WPS with P-No.1 Gr.2 to P-No.1 Gr.2. Am I right? Where is exactly written in ASME IX the fact that it's allowed? Or do I need to do a test coupon? thanks

 

[ElCidCampeador]

I think I've found the answer on my own: QG-105.3. Group number is a supplementary variable for my process, so I can use that PQR. Am I right?

 

[david339933]

Correct, group # is supp. essential. P# is essential, QW-403.11, which leads you to QW-424.