Recruiter tactics 6

[dozer]

Recently a recruiter called me and said someone had given them my name as a reference. The recruiter said that he had an opening for a sales engineer and would I be interested? Funny thing is, anybody who knows me well enough to use me for a reference would know I'm not a sales engineer and nobody has asked me recently to be a reference.

I asked the recruiter who gave him my name. He said the person is no longer looking for work so it wouldn't be proper to divulge his name.

Two questions:
1) Why wouldn't that be proper? I would kind of like to know who's giving out my name. Especially someone who doesn't even know what the heck I do.

2) Is this just a recruiter tactic, i.e., there was no one that gave them my name as a reference. Rather this was just a cover story to open up dialogue.

Thoughts?

 

[JAE]

dozer:

1) It is not proper because they simply need an excuse not to tell you.

2) Probably they got your name through either an invdividual or through some membership publication, license, etc.

Recruiter's tactics always involve fishing around during a phone call to see if you are really ever a going to be a candidate for a future job, and; asking you if you know of anyone else who "might" be interested. Many people give out multiple names of any engineer they know just to get rid of the caller.

I wouldn't sweat it.

 

[dozer]

Oh, I'm not sweating it. It's just that here we are talking about ethics as engineers and I find that some of people who help us to find jobs are not very ethical. At least to me fabricating a story to get your foot in the door is not ethical. I was just wondering how other people see recruiters. To me, if we are going to be ethical in how we as engineers conduct our business we should expect the same from those so closely associated with engineers.

 

[HamishMcTavish]

Hang on, go back a step....How did the recruiter expect you to give a reference for someone when he would not tell you who the someone was?

No more things should be presumed to exist than are absolutely necessary - William of Occam

 

[onlyadrafter]

Hello,

Would you have still minded if he had a job offer of double your salary, and loads of fringe benefits?

I know it can be a pain in the a**e, but you could just politely say 'No thanks'.



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Hope this helps.
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maybe only a drafter
but the best user at this company!

 

[MechEng13]

Hamish,

Nothing related to thread....however I am impressed by your ending quote. My father spent many years with working on collecting, correcting, and compiling into a single set of volumes, the published works of William of Occam...the group that worked at the Fransiscan Institute at St. Bonaventure University have 18 volumes published on Him.

Just surprised to see others that have heard of him.



Alan M. Etzkorn
Product Engineer
Nixon Tool Co.

http://www.nixontool.com

 

[Comcokid]

There are a lot of tactics that recruiters use that are not direct.

Probably what happened in your case is a client company needed a sales engineer. The recruiter went down a list of competitors and companies in related industries and made cold calls. The recruiter probably called the receptionist at your company and asked to speak with such-and-such kind of engineer, and probably even hinted that he was a salesman. The explanation given you was probably only a convenient excuse.

 

[ctopher]

I wish more people would do what I do, just hang up on them!

 

[JAE]

dozer,

How I see recruiters: Well, I would first have to assume that all human beings are different and there are great, ethical, and honest recruiters and then some that are somewhere near lunchmeat on the evolutionary scale.

So I wouldn't paint them all with the same broad brush.

The job I now have is due to a recruiter who happened to call me at the right time. In this case, he was very professional and courteous. Yes, he go paid a bundle for the matchmaking, yes, he asked me for names of other engineers who I could recommend as possibly wanting a new job. Many times I give him a few but only if I sincerely believed that they would not mind the call.

In fact, I generally believe that ANY engineer in ANY position would welcome opportunities to consider vs. the alternative of never having alternatives to consider.

Having said that, I would agree that your recruiter was a bit "pushy" and in lying to get in your door would be a quick red flag against depending on him/her for a new job.

But if they call, YOU have the choice to consider what they have to offer or, as ctopher stated.....Hang up!

 

[plasgears]

As a rule, I turn off any cold calls by head hunters. Who knows where the lead came from. It could be any of your friends or enemies.

 

[aspearin1]

The classic recruiter call I can remember when I was just out of school and desperate for a job:

"I saw your resume and see that you have experience in (such n' such). I have a few positions here, neither of which look like a match for you, but I was wondering if you might know someone else in the field..."
Reply:
"Ummm.... No... Thanks for calling..."

aspearin1

 

[Comcokid]

Here's another reason to be careful about recruiters calling you at work (especially if you work for a company you can't trust).

If your employer suspects you may be looking for a new job, they may contact a recruiter they know, and have that recruiter call you. Your interest in possible new employment and what you say about your employer will then be the justification for your employer hiring a replacement.

 

[bvi]

Re Comcokids comment, I would think that if you worked for a company that operated like that (deep mistrust and sneaky tactics), you would be better off if they did replace you.

 

[Comcokid]

I have worked for two companies that I suspected used this tactic. In both cases, I carefully found new employment and left. Come to think of it, both companies were filled with people who either didn't have the skill set for a better job, or who where trapped there by circumstances.

Your eyes tend to get opened when you meet a true sociopath "Catbert" running a HR department. Beware!

 

[EngineerDave]

I have often thought of the same thing Comcokid stated. In fact I joked with co-workers that the headhunter was actually someone in management calling to see if their employees were looking for jobs.

Another thing I heard about is, that employers have looked on careerbuilder sites and found their employees resumes on the site. That might factor in to their decisions about a particular employee, especially if it is evident that somenone has a recent resume online.

In the end it pays to keep your eyes open.

But I was extremely upset at a co-worker who used my computer to send out resumes from work. Theres a reason my computer is password protected now.

 

[MRM]

Hmm...can't an honest, currently employed person get through an entire day without some headhunter calling him up and offering him a number of other job opportunities to consider? Don't they know we're supposed to be in some kind of a "recession" here?

 

[imagitec]

I've never worried about the scenario Comcokid described, at my current or any former employer. If they learned I was looking, my employer's concern would be retaining me.

Rob Campbell

http://www.livejournal.com/users/robcampbell

 

[jmw]

Are you from the "Twilight Zone" Rob? If so, how do we all get there?

I had a big rant coming on here but thought i'd spare you all.

Management have a set of rules they live by. Taken together and knowing that managers are exactly smart, you have a bad position as an employee. As an engineer, the worst. They know you would work for nothing if you didn't have a wife and kids to support.
Rule 1) No one is indispensible.
Rule 2) Keep succession planning updated.

Rule 1 is founded in logic i.e. no business can be dependent on any one employee. This is fine, if you make chocolate biscuits but not so relevant in leading edge technologies where your skills probably are unique. Sadly, management often don't understand the difference and soon believe (a) you're not indispensible (b) by extension, they don't need you (c) this is proven every time you take a holiday and the comany doesn't go under.

Rule 2) is an extension of rule 1)based on the logic that you might step in front of a bus one day or retire. Hence they think they have plans to replace you if you do go, even though they know they don't need you. The test of this is that though managers all talk about succession planning, the plans were last updated 20 years ago (which probably accounts for the low replacement cost estimates which further re-inforce rule 1).

Sooner or later management will either decide that since they don't need you they may as well make you redundant or to treat you so badly that you will go and save them the trouble.

The day they suspect you might be looking at a career move they may look at replacement costs and decide it is cheaper to keep you by offering more money. This means your job is woth more to them than they have been paying you. Or, they decide to let you go and share your job out among your colleagues (for no extra money). This makes them look good because the head count is down and productivity is up (or appears to be). If they don't come and offer more money, you know you have to go anyway.

Now ask who should worry about the ethics of head hunters? You or management? If the head hunters recruit you from a job they placed you in originally, that may seem unethical, but it happens. It happens more often in a recession than not. This is a "victimless crime" or is it? Importantly, if you are an engineer or any other professional, you need a better paid job. These guys can get it for you.

OK, I lied. I ranted anyway.

 

[imagitec]

I found two of my jobs through head hunters. In the first case, it was only my second job. I was not the kind of experienced candidate a head hunter likes to work with. I think he was more interested in getting an "in" with my current manager. The position the company was interviewing for was more senior, but they must have had other needs, too, because they created a position for me.

In the second case, I had to convince the head hunter to work with me; we had a face to face interview. It worked out for both of us.

I've been on two other interviews set up by head hunters. The first was arranged by the second head hunter I'd worked with. It went well, but I decided the work wasn't for me. The second was arranged by a head hunter who had seen my resume on monster.com. There was a good fit between my skills and experience and the position, which is a sign that the headhunter is doing his best for you and him. Again, the interview went well, but I was looking for a different kind of move.

A decent head hunter doesn't want to waste your time or his. There should be evidence that he has done homework. If he says he got your resume off monster.com, then proceeds to ask questions that are answered on your resume, there is a problem. If he doesn't have a specific job in mind, there is a problem. These are things you should consider in deciding to work with someone.

Rob Campbell

http://www.livejournal.com/users/robcampbell

 

[JNR]

There are good ethical poeple and bad unethical people in all job and walks of life.

Yes, there does tend to be a large (too large) percentage of apparently out of work used car sales people in the recruiting trade. Trouble is they give everyone else a bad name.

When are they going to realize that all they need to do is be HONEST with you and they will get much better response even if it is a polite "no thanks". Even the car sales people are finally starting to get it in some places these days......

BTW: Any company who really plays the kind of tricks on their employees being discussed here is in grave danger of being taken to criminal and civil court - and should be. We're talking potential personal fines and jail time too in some States.

(Got into this thread while searching for something completely different!)

John Richards Sr. Mech. Engr.
Rockwell Collins Flight Dynamics

There are only 10 types of people in the world - those who understand binary and those who don't.