Redlining and Stamping Drawings Prepared By An Architect or Outside Drafter

[NWEng1]

This question is primarily directed at structural engineers working at small firms:

Is it ethical to perform engineering calculations for a building design (usually a house), to then redline structural information on an architect's plans (architect does not work for same firm as engineer), have the architect draft the structural drawings, and then stamp the structural drawings prepared by the architect? Most boards require that engineers only stamp drawings prepared under their direct supervision - does direct supervision mean only an employee or coworker, or can it be an outside architect or drafter?

What has your experience been with this process, if you have performed engineering services this way? For a complicated building (like most high-end residences) with lots of involved custom details, is the process of "outsourcing" the drafting more efficient than doing the drafting yourself, considering all of the back-checking and re-redlining of the architect or drafter's work?

 

[JAE]

In most US states this is considered legal as long as the engineer does the full design and thoroughly checks the final drawing product.

This is essentially an engineer "hiring" someone to do drafting for them. It isn't against most US state engineering laws for someone not licensed to draft engineering designs...they just can't control the design or force the engineer to sign/seal something they disagree with.



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[dik]

on another vein... Can you ask the Architect if it is OK for an Architect to get a drafting service to do up redlined Architectural drawings. I wonder what the difference is?

Dik

 

[SLTA]

I always tell the architect to get all the structural info off their drawings, and then I fill in the real answers. I have used architectural drawings as backgrounds for my structural info, but put them on my structural pages. I won't stamp anything marked architectural.

Please remember: we're not all guys!

 

[dik]

I do the same...

 

[Ron]

Agree with JAE...it's just drafting. As long as the engineer has control over the review and issuance....not a problem.

 

[dik]

It appears that sealing drawings prepared by an Architect was the initial cause of the Algo Centre Mall failure which cost two lives. The only engineering part that looks like it was engineered was the specified loadings. It also appears that the shop drawings for the HC slabs was never reviewed by an engineer. Just a caution.

Dik

 

[JAE]

dik brings up a good point - one that I didn't emphasize in my earlier post.

If you do indeed depend on "another" to actually draw your plans and details, that arrangement should serve as a caution that you need to be much more fully engaged when you review the drawings and don't just scan over them quickly.

In one sense this arrangement would be similar to your own in-house drafters getting their work reviewed by you as the EOR, but you have to remember that many architects, and many architect drafters, are generally not as familiar with structural detailing, notes, etc. so mistakes are more likely to happen.

In the case of the collapsed mall (per dik) it always appeared to me that the engineer was not fully engaged in the situation and did a poor or minimal effort at performing even the minimal engineering duties that were required.

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[dik]

I don't think he was... no HC details on the drawings, only HC Slab, topping and waterproofing. The design loading could not be achieved without composite action and they were light. I think his only involvement was to confirm loading. The system chosen was not workable.

Dik