Remote SE Work 4

[skych]

Hi all,

I wonder how many of us working in structural engineering, solo or as part of a small or large firm, do so remotely, or are open to collaborating remotely (having employees work remotely)? There was a time where I thought this was very odd, but now I'm starting to think that it is more common?

Thanks

 

[Lomarandil]

For experienced and mature engineers -- absolutely.

For young engineers it can be a real handicap.

 

[JoshPlumSE]

With the tools we have today, it is a lot easier than it has ever been before. Teams, Zoom and such are great ways to share screens and have meetings.

My former company used BlueBeam-Revue for all of our drawing markups, so that's all we really needed to communicate.

That being said, I agree with Lomarandil completely. It's much better for experienced engineers. And, probably a problem for young engineers who need more personal direction.

 

[hawkaz]

If the experienced and mature engineers are remote- who is training the young engineers?

Are experienced engineers more efficient when remote? In many cases- yes they are. The new engineers are paying the price for this though. They are not picking up on the knowledge that those remote experienced engineers could pass on.

 

[phamENG]

who is training the young engineers?

We are.

 

[RattlinBog]

If the experienced and mature engineers are remote- who is training the young engineers?

Are experienced engineers more efficient when remote? In many cases- yes they are. The new engineers are paying the price for this though. They are not picking up on the knowledge that those remote experienced engineers could pass on.

As a young engineer, I definitely felt this. During the pandemic/mandates, everyone in my office had to abruptly pack up and go home for "three weeks,", which quickly turned into over a year. It was one of the most challenging times of my life (exacerbated by the arrival of our first child--which was obviously a blessing, but still--and starting graduate school all in the same year). Not a lot of sleep that year.

My coworkers were great people, and I had/have a lot of respect for them, but most of them were fairly introverted, so any mentoring or teaching of fundamentals over Teams was nearly nonexistent. It was one of the main reasons I left consulting and went to work as a structural engineer for an owner in industry. I could see myself going back to consulting one day, but it was tough to be so isolated at the beginning of my career when I desperately needed mentorship. Whew--rant over.

 

[Luceid]

I work for a larger firm that gives hybrid - works for some people and less for others. I definitely prefer being out of my home when working

 

[DrZoidberWoop]

Small engineering team, medium-sized company.

The way things are going in my industry (structural steel), we increasingly interact w/ detailing teams all over the globe (India lately). So it’s already sort of remote, whether I'm at home or the office. It's a bit funny (and depressing) knowing that I'm remotely interfacing w/ an engineering manager in New York City who, in-turn, is remotely leading a team (herding cats) somewhere overseas.

But I work for a steel fabricator, and it’s best for me to be at the "office" so I can be available to the craft workers and operations managers. I can manage a team of detailers remotely, but I would never want to evaluate shop nonconformances or performance issues remotely.

 

[bones206]

This is part of a larger philosophical issue that I find myself thinking about a lot lately. I sum it up like this: All cultures and institutions are vulnerable to decay and ultimately extinction, unless they are constantly being instilled, practiced and reinforced by the members of the group. Expertise is not just magically self-perpetuating, it has to be passed on human to human over a requisite period of time.

The 3 firms I've worked at were 100, 80 and 60 years old, respectively. All of them had distinguished histories and fairly well-regarded engineering reputations. And at all 3 firms, I've felt mostly on my own to figure things out and basically find my own way and create my own personal engineering culture of practice. If anything, Eng-Tips has been my cultural touchstone group more than the firms I've worked at.

There seems to have been a disruption in the 80's or 90's that broke the chain of tribal knowledge and culture at a lot of older, established engineering firms. It created a sort of air gapping effect, where things just simply didn't get passed along to the next generation. Tangible things like standard details and rules of thumb, and intangible things like how to approach different scenarios or how to balance ethics and project demands. As a result, these companies lost their institutional knowledge and are just a random collection of individuals.

That's a long preamble to say that remote working exacerbates this problem. Unless you can replicate cubicle and watercooler conversations through video chat, the quality of generational knowledge transfer is going to be poor and insufficient IMO. I'm lucky o have one older colleague who chats with me several times a day on Teams, but I haven't even spoken with some other older engineers in months/years!

 

[lexpatrie]

Nobody "trains" new engineers that's why bridges have a forty year cycle of failure.

I'm a sole practitioner so I a) can't hire and b) don't plan to "grow" anyway, it's too late for that anyway.

As a young EIT I once interviewed with a firm that basically refused to hire engineers without any experience. I asked what I was doing in the interview and lost interest, future me would have just left. To my knowledge this firm still doesn't hire new engineers so, what's the future of their business? Poaching people from other companies after they have a year or two of experience. Nasty people.

 

[skeletron]

To answer the original two-part question:

"...how many of [structural engineers] ... do so remotely, or are open to ... (having employees work remotely)?

A1: Solo practitioner. Fully remote since 2020.
A2: Not open to having remote employees with the exception of drafters, engineering reviewers, and/or pre-existing relationships with engineers (sometimes having developed these remotely via independent reviews).

Lots of new jobs are advertising a hybrid schedule of 3-4 days in the office and 1-2 days remote. If I could turn back time, I would be absolutely all-in on these jobs (see below for my perspective on the effectiveness of water cooler talk). As a solo practitioner, I see more benefit in keeping on my own path rather than return to office work. Simply put, the cost of commuting + the extras (coffee, lunch, fixed 9-5 schedule, doggy daycare, kid pick-up/drop-off, appointments, comforts of home) outweighs the potential benefit of joining a firm's office even if that means somehow achieving structural engineering nirvana with a StructEng Yoda. The reality is that there are financial and health benefits (commuting ain't kind to colitis) with me working remotely and I am undoubtedly reaching closer to a my own level of satisfaction with structural engineering.

I have a lot of EIT's applying to my firm (me) probably because they do a buck-shot blast for every structural engineering firm in a 50km radius. Most of them are way to junior for me to guide remotely. I attempted this one time on a conditional basis, and it was like helping someone do their homework. No fault of their own. I think if I were to ever reconsider this I would need: (1) a full-time licensed partner to bring in additional work; (2) a full-time drafter to make everything consistent; (3) a documented training manual or system.

There are lots of good comments and perspectives from others above. There are suggestions that working in the office gets you more face time with your peers and mentors. I agree to an extent but know, from my experience, that this can be far from the truth in a smaller office. Having worked in small-ish firms my whole career (<12 engineers in a department) I always felt like the work punted onto my desk was done so haphazardly and with a "figure it out yourself" attitude. There were a small exception of really inspiring engineers, but mostly it was the same as remote work. Head down, pencil on paper until 5 o'clock.

 

[271828]

I wonder how many of us working in structural engineering, solo or as part of a small or large firm, do so remotely, or are open to collaborating remotely (having employees work remotely)? There was a time where I thought this was very odd, but now I'm starting to think that it is more common?

I've worked remotely about 1/2 the time for the last 15 years. I'm fine working alone because I've been doing this a long time. I work with several friends and colleagues remotely. They also have very long track records and decades of experience. That has worked out fine.

Thinking back to my first 10 years out of school:

I would not consider working with a new engineer other than in a traditional office scenario. They need to be immersed in the culture of what we do, how we think, be able to ask lots of questions face-to-face, etc. Their work ethic is largely untested also. If they're going a little slow, or they don't pick up the phone, I don't need to be wondering if they're running an errand, hanging out with family on company time, etc.

 

[GregLocock]

Not an SE but I have remotely mentored two overseas employees who joined our team (not simultaneously). That worked, but only because the first 6 weeks or so of any given gateway is fairly slack, we are gathering information, and so the mentorees, working on a different program with different timing, were able to contact me and I could and would do so to resolve their issues. However the final 6 weeks leading into a gateway I'd deal with them as and when my own work allowed.

...and yes there are many companies that will ony recruit somehwat experienced engineers. It's a profitable business model, if nasty. OTOH when I jumped ship after 4 years I got a 50% pay rise, whereas if I'd stayed with my first employer I'd probably have got 5% per year.

 

[human909]

I personally would rate site experience higher than learning from colleagues. At least you have all sorts of written references to learn from. But nothing replaces time on site or in a fabrication workshop. (I'm biased as I've never had senior structural colleagues to learn from. So I've learnt how to learn in there absence. Sometimes it is damn frustrating trying to learn a tiny detail without a colleague next to you. But when you do figure it out you'll be far wiser due to the work you have put in.)

I'd prefer to do 75% of my work remotely. Currently I around 50%. I have an salaried job that is in the office or on site and a personal company that is work from home or site visits.

...and yes there are many companies that will ony recruit somehwat experienced engineers. It's a profitable business model, if nasty. OTOH when I jumped ship after 4 years I got a 50% pay rise, whereas if I'd stayed with my first employer I'd probably have got 5% per year.

The company I've worked for has adopted the opposite approach. Hire them young, keep the good ones and occasionally let go of those who struggle. The attitude is we can teach and pay them less! But the majority of the work isn't structural it is mechanical design drafting. I've stuck around as I've had raises commensurate with my work.

 

[LOTE]

I work for myself from home and have several 1099 contractors that are also all remote. We are all on different timezones, which works well for getting work complete as we are typically working at different times of day (I do not have set work hours for them, just minimum # hours/day). I record a lot of training videos and also have written guides with screen shots.

I think the only time I would require someone in an office is if I hire an intern or someone engineer fresh out of college that needs constant training or oversight. My current model works very well for what I do.