Removing sod from gravel road shoulders 2

[oldestguy]

In Wisconsin at a subdivision where gravel roadways have been plowed in the winter, carrying roadway gravel to the shoulders, it would be helpful for the upgrading of the road (getting double chip seal - the cheapest and all that can be afforded) to bring that gravel back and use it. However, sod has grown very well there. Some use of Roundup has been tried, but leaves the dead vegitation.

Just blading the whole works out into the road brings the sod, making it difficult to properly grade.

The local contractors say to "forget it, just add more new gravel". Nice idea, but the funds are tight. The reason for this approach is the fact the shoulders have raised some, above the nearby roadway edge, causing a channeling of surface water at the junction of road and shoulder. Either lowering the shoulders or raising the roadway is what would be the desired work. This is a country setting subdivision, no curbs, just ditches. However that shoulder is abutting some fellow's lawn.

How about Roundup or similar and do some form of thatching? Then salvage the gravel.

Any ideas will be welcome. We have few bucks to work with.

 

[VAD]

Interesting:

If you do bring the gravel from the shoulders, you will also need erosion protection of the shoulder that would now be bare of vegetation. Gravel would be contaminated and not very suitable for chip seal. Screening would be required and this is expensive as well, but is an option to remove sod and fines. I wonder if the sod can be removed as done by sod planters. Perhaps not. Another idea would be to create slots along the shoulder perpendicular to the roadway to facilitate drainage to the ditch. Small diameter pipes can be placed in these slots. This assume that the roadway surface would be treated using the insitu material in a graded aggregate seal.

I would first dig a few slots in the shoulder and examine the situation re the thickness of sod and sod root embedment, gravel thickness etc and determine if the sod can be removed with blading using a grader. The use of round up and blading may work.

Would the use of cold mix asphalt be expensive in comparison to the proposed schemes.

So much for now

 

[LHA]

First, double check that the cost of buying enough Roundup, applying it, then thatching and backblading is cheaper than just buying and spreading new gravel. I can't believe that.

But if it is, I agree with VAD. You will have to do some degree of screening to remove as much of the organic matter as possible.

Engineering is the practice of the art of science - Steve

 

[oldestguy]

Thanks guys:

No big worry about erosion here, but more likely getting lot owners mad with dumping of sod toward their lot.

All shoulders are mowed now and no problem if they were gravel exposed.

Ya, it is a tough question to answer. I like the idea of maybe just channeling off the water in areas where it may collect or flow.

This is in a country setting, but still in a village, mostly retirement residental. As volunteers last year a number of us went about collecting the sod and such, loading into tractor bucket and then to a dump truck. A fun project, but not practical for several miles and for getting back most of the lost gravel. This was after a grader brought a little of it into the roadway. Much more gravel still sits under shoulder sod.

What did come out was only slightly "contaminated" with vegitation, and with some power raking it was pretty much collected. However, those edge of road and shoulder elevation differences remained.

I know this is a tough thing to expect an easy answer with.

I was wondering about a roto tiller (5 ft. PTO type) to chew up the stuff and then dethatch, dry and then burn?. Burning is OK here, if controlled.

Still open to any more ideas.

 

[VAD]

Just a thought. Would rolling the shoulders with a 10 tonne vibratory Bomag type packer help to reduce the elevation difference.

 

[Grouser]

Just some thoughts. I think you can separate the gravel from the organics by three methods: Vad's screening, burning or flotation. Screening is probably the cheapest, unless you have fuel resulting from another activity (leaves or mowing). Burning will still require removal of the ash from the gravel. Flotation/separation would be enhanced by gyroscopic action.

The gravel mined from the shoulder may require augmentation of the particle size distribution to be suitable for the chip seal aggregate.

Tell the fronting owners (and others) you are reducing their tax burden by reusing the gravel. (If it's cheaper!)

Cheers

 

[CSLufkin]

My dad was the local Highway Superintendent for many years back in the 60's-70's. He is always complaining about our tax dollars constantly going to add gravel to roads just to keep them higher than the shoulders when the gravel that was added last year is actually what is raising the shoulders in the first place.
He says a good grader operator can roll the whole works (Sod and Gravel) up onto one lane of the road, then lift the blade slightly and keep rolling the windrow into the other lane until the sod and rocks(which are big and bulky) are all lying in the far lane and the clean gravel is laying in the close lane. Then just scoop the sod and rocks up with the loader and dump them in an area that needs some fill. He says that when you have it right, you will have cut the shoulders down to a top soily layer that will grow grass for erosion control very quickly.

 

[cvg]

how about a one time treatment of the shoulders to prevent weeds? remove the gravel, stabilize the shoulder with lime or portland cement and then replace the gravel. that may help to prevent weeds from growing in the future.

 

[oldestguy]

CSLufkin:

I'm going to explore this possibility, since former grader operator was not the best and maybe one can be found that can do this job right. If possible to hang with this method, it will save plenty.

Thanks to all so far.

 

[Speedycrete]

Here's an idea:

http://www.usroads.com/journals/p/rmj/9709/rm970904.htm

 

[oldestguy]

Hey Speedycrete:

That sure looks like it may have potential here.

We do have a tractor in this small village with good power capability on the PTO and this may do the job.

Nice to have all you guys thinking about this. Thanks.

 

[cadmo]

I will have to agree w/ CSLufkin. I live out in the country where clay-gravel roads are the norm. A good blade man can keep the shoulders up, given the approval for timely passes. When we have problems here, it's because the funds have gotten low and grading has not been performed in a while. Our operator pulls it to the crown from both sides, then knocks it down. He doesnt leave much out on the shoulders, given that's where it will end up eventually.

 

[oldestguy]

Hi All:

For what it is worth, I used my PTO roto tiller 5 ft. wide with one side set for no depth and the other 2". It chewed the stuff up nicely, but there was too much topsoil and dirt in general to salvage for road again, so I used the bucket and gathered it up, it came in handy for some fill needed. The trial was about 500 ft. length and it looks good as to how it worked. So next year this is likely the way the shoulders will be lowered.