Report a Client for Fraud? 23

[casseopeia]

I have a Client (Developer) who used whiteout and pencil to significantly alter a printout of a detail design that I had issued. It was then scanned and issued to the Contractor in electronic format with my firm's letterhead and my initials still intact, as if it had come from us. I was not notified of the change until I happened to stop by the project site to get some unrelated information and saw what they were constructing. I asked the Superintendent why he was not following what I drew and he said it was what I issued. That's how I discovered the change. The Superintendent was disturbed by the unauthorized revisions and said that he had a similar experience with the HVAC consultant just the day before. The Client had taken whole sections of the mechanical specifications, changed the equipment, typed up the changes, and literally cut and pasted the paper right into the Project Manual without the knowledge of the Designer.

I find this behavior shocking. The Client is certainly free to ignore his Consultant's recommendations, but to change the Consultant's work product and issue under the stamp of another licensed professional seems like it would rise to the level of fraud, punishable by the loss of a business license. If this were my own company, I would have dumped this Client a long time ago when he started in making sweeping changes in my investigation report, but my boss decided to continue the work. Just looking for opinions.

"Gorgeous hair is the best revenge." Ivana Trump

 

[MiketheEngineer]

I think I would sit down and have a very "serious" talk with the client explicitly explaining exactly what laws and ethics he violated.

This is if you want to keep him as a client - your call - but always follow up. If you really want to get rid of him - tell him that if he pulls this again you will report him to the appropriate authorities and do so.

 

[GMcD]

Given that most of the Professional Associations rules and bylaws are similar, this should be cut and dried - if someone else has made changes to YOUR design without your authorization or consultation, you should be free to write the letter to the Client saying "Bye, and thanks for all the fish, you, Mr. Client can get someone else to take responsibility for signing off on the Occupancy Permit and project close-out documents for the building permit".

I had a similar experience earlier this year where cost saving changes were made by others, without consultation and I only discovered the changes when I got shop drawings for stuff that did not meet the design at all, so I rejected them. It was then that I was told that the Construction Manager and Owner had agreed on these cost savings. The changes would have resulted in the failure of critical building heating and cooling systems.

The situation was simple to me - go ahead with your changes, but you'll have to get another engineer to sign off on the Building Permit and Close-out documentation for Occupancy. Or, you can sit down with me and the design team and resolve how much needs to be saved, and let the Owner clearly understand the compromises that he would have to live with, and still end up with a reasonably safe working building system.

 

[TheTick]

Sounds like you have a choice between pulling a pin on a grenade or just sitting on a ticking time bomb. (Me, I don't like to wait.)

 

[MacGyverS2000]

I'm not sure why you're hesitating. The client obviously has no ethics, and they'd just as soon claim innocence to the whole matter and throw you under the bus should it suit them. Turn them in. The worst that can happen is somehow the doctored report becomes "the truth", and your rear end finds its way to a courtroom. I don't consider any grace on the situation to be a good thing, you simply cannot get anything good coming out of this.

Dan - Owner

http://www.Hi-TecDesigns.com

 

[ColonelSanders83]

Get with your company Lawer Immediatly.

Have all you transmittals ready as well as a copy of the altered documents, and if possible an email from the superintendant on the matter.

Both you and your place of work are sitting on a huge liability.

After this is in the lawers capable hands (this is exactly the kind of thing they are there for), File a complaint for fruadulant activity.

I garuntee this isn't the first time they have performed such a slimey manuver.

Just my two cents worth

A question properly stated is a problem half solved.

Always remember, free advice is worth exactly what you pay for it!

http://www.ap-dynamics.ab.ca/

 

[jmw]

I wish life were easier for you Cass.At another time and with another company, it would be a no-brainer, yes?

It seems cut and dried, have a word with the client or simply shop them.

But I doubt wonder, given your other threads, if what you are really asking is:
"How do I do what I have to do and still have a job, for just as long as I need it?"

It would be so nice to know that when you find this behaviour you can act as necessary sure that your company is behind you.

So before moving to the necessary action the best I can suggest is to have a word first (and sort of unofficially) with the local Professional association and make sure that whatever action is taken is done in such a way that your company must support you or face some dire consequences of their own.

I would guess the next step would be to appraise the managers of this problem and present them also with the advice/recommendations/instructions from the professional body, legal advise if possible.

In other words, take away from your own company any option of trying to ignore the situation which, I'd guess, is something they would want to do because the client is a revenue source. Plus they may be looking for any quasi excuse to let you go given all that you've said before about their attitudes, it seems a fair inference.

JMW

http://www.ViscoAnalyser.com

 

[casseopeia]

After talking to my boss, here are HIS suggestions for dealing with this.

1. Don't write a letter or email raising any red flags where it can be discovered during litigation because the question will come up as to why we stayed on the job.

2. Record changes, as a clerk, but do not send to anyone.

This was not the reaction I expected. I didn't think he would jump up on his chair and scream like a 4 yo, but certainly a small bit of indignation is appropriate. Ethics never even entered the conversation.

"Gorgeous hair is the best revenge." Ivana Trump

 

[casseopeia]

jmw, you have said what is between the lines. There is no question that the economy has changed the fabric of business ethics, but I have a feeling that the economy is not the whole problem here.

"Gorgeous hair is the best revenge." Ivana Trump

 

[jmw]

Yes, it looks like your boss wants to bury this. You don't indicate that he even wants to talk with the client.
With no official record, if it all comes out, guess who'll be getting the finger pointed at them.......

Great proposal by your boss.
It protects him, doesn't embarrass a client (or risk a default on payment) but it leaves you wide open.

I think you really need that off-the-record talk with the Professional Association.

JMW

http://www.ViscoAnalyser.com

 

[dik]

I would do a few things...

I would discuss this with my employer to determine what he wants to do and if he wants to have this reviewed by his legal consultant;

I would inform him of my intended actions as follows:

I would have a frank discussion with the client and explain that his actions were not only wrong, but could result in a dangerous condition (I would refrain from stating that the actions were illegal and criminally dangerous since being an accessory may not be much fun, either);

I would explain to the client that his actions would require a detailed review. Reviewing this matter would be time intensive and that he would be responsible for all costs associated with this review;

I would review his changes to see if they are technically sufficient. If not, it would be a matter of correcting the deficiencies;

I would find out from the contractor what changes have been authorised so that all changes could be reviewed to confirm that this hasn't occurred before; and

If the contractor indicates that other disciplines have undergone changes, then advise the client that all the changes were vetted by the various consultants.

Dik

 

[lacajun]

I learned that if an offense is not reported and learned later by whatever means by a State Board, you are responsible as the PE and will endure the consequences. No one else's conduct matters but your own conduct because you are the PE. Hard decision? Yes. It's your reputation on the line either way you choose to handle it and reputation goes a long way.

Report it to your state board. Your state's board will launch an investigation so have all of your documentation lined up.

I don't know the nature of the project but if people's lives or health can be jeopardized, they shouldn't be allowed to go further.

This is also why I think PE's should be on equal footing with management because management should not be able to trump a PE's professional judgment for any reason.

 

[jmw]

Should the contractor not be working with certified original copies?

Is there nothing on the original drawing that prohibits modification in any way and warns of the legal consequences?

In this day of photo-shop, what precautions can anyone take to prevent this sort of behaviour? Are there guidelines laid out to cover this and does your company follow them?

These are all questions that should be occurring to your own bosses, I would have thought.

What your bosses seem happy to overlook is that it is already known outside the company that something is wrong, and maybe that someone is expecting something to be done about it.

The Superintendent was disturbed by the unauthorized revisions and said that he had a similar experience with the HVAC consultant just the day before.

He is aware you know about it and presumably that you were very unhappy.
He mentioned another instance... with this same client?

If so, then maybe there are already some official awareness of what is going on at the client and in which case you could be really out on a limb if they move before you do.

Your initial conversation with your bosses appears to be totally verbal and unwitnessed?
You may need to make some more formal documented action whatever they say.

Have they thought of the consequences to them if it should appear they haven't taken adequate response to the situation?

Do they know your legal obligations? Their own?
Do they care?
The fact they want no emails, letters etc suggests to me they do know or suspect, but they don't want to blow the whistle.

The next questions ought to be:
"How many other drawings have they modified in this way?"
"What are they going to do to find the answers?"
"What will they do when they know the answers?"
"If this is possible with this client, due to some defect in the way drawings are certified and copies maintained, is it happening with any other client?"

If it is this client only, has he done it with other drawings from other companies? If this is known or suspected officially, what steps can officials take? could it involve auditing all the drawings and cross referencing them with originals?
What if they then discover you knew and did nothing? supose this superintendent has said or will say something either off the record or on?

As LaCajun suggests, you may be the one to carry the consequences. Your bosses seem to be distancing themselves and ready to deny all knowledge and, possibly, to blame it all on you.

Maybe this is a black reading but better to hope for the best AND expect the worst and act accordingly.

It is a shame you appear have simply spoken to your bosses before getting any legal/professional advice, without formally requesting the meeting in writing with a declaration in writing of what the situation is.
Also, without laying out some legal options before them. Why? because that could have stopped them getting started on the cover up road to begin with. It may not be too late if they can be appraised of the legal situation plus that this is already known outside of the company and even perhaps frightening them with the idea that if its happening to them it may be happening to someone else and that there may be some kind of action pending.
Scare them a little? Get them back on track?

Like most problems, the best way to solve them is make them someone else's problem.
Specifically, your Bosses.
At the moment you are their problem and you have problems enough.

So I'd get that advice ASAP and cover yourself.

I assume, by the way, that these changes were not trivial and the client made them to (a)save money and (b) didn't approach you for modification because presumably he knew they would not be agreed?

Are they serious issues? Who loses?
Have you considered that other drawings may have been altered?

JMW

http://www.ViscoAnalyser.com

 

[JedClampett]

Cass, you now have the perfect opportunity to get the heck out of Dodge with your head held high. Make your complaint to the board and copy your boss on the letter. They might fire you. Or they might get worried about firing a whistle blower and let you make a graceful exit.
If this place is as disfunctional as you describe, you need to get out of there. I'd rather go out for ethical reasons than for not getting along with some insane management. It makes a better story for future employers. Plus if they check with the previous employer, it would explain any stink they say about you.
And if the changes are structural, they could be dangerous. You need to get this aired out.

 

[cvg]

is this "boss" the same one that wanted you fired a couple weeks ago for insubordination? Or was that the manager he hired? I can't decide whether your boss or your client is the bigger idiot.

 

[casseopeia]

The Senior Project Manager is the one who gave me such grief and accused (falsely) me of not following protocol when issuing drawings and specifications to a contractor.

This is from the head guy who is clearly has a couple of corrupt files in his personal hard drive.

There may be a structural component to the change the Developer made, eventually. The revised detail will result in continuous water infiltration from ground and irrigation water into a post-tensioned podium slab which will eventually cause tendons to corrode. Until that happens, its just a leak that damages the paint on cars.

"Gorgeous hair is the best revenge." Ivana Trump

 

[DRWeig]

Cass, just a suggestion:

Get an initial consult with an employment plaintiff's attorney and lay it out for him.

Good on ya and GOOD LUCK!!

Goober Dave

 

[jmw]

So the end client is the the victim.

I like JedClampetT's idea.

This is certainly a better reason to go and it might just let you sue them for wrongful dismissal or something similar and you certainly don't owe them anything.

The Superintendent was disturbed by the unauthorized revisions and said that he had a similar experience with the HVAC consultant just the day before

This says to me the s**t is going to hit the fan. He may be waiting to see what you do but if he sees nothing happening, he may just go to the client (whoever is paying for all this, i.e. not your client but his client) and "tip them the wink".

The HVAC company may be acting even now.

JMW

http://www.ViscoAnalyser.com

 

[hokie66]

This has crossed the line from ethical to legal. The crime of forgery has been committed. By using your signature on an altered document without reference to you, the client has in effect forged your signature. I don't know the procedure where you are, but the police should be notified.

 

[patprimmer]

I agree 100% with hokie. A crime has now been committed.

If you do not report it, you are an accomplice.

Regards
Pat
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