Requirements for PE 2

[lz5pl]

Hello to all.
I am new here and I don't live in the USA as most of people on this forum, so some professional practices are interesting for me. I would like to know more about requirements for PE license in States and comparable licensing in other countries. In my country (Bulgaria) we have a Chamber of Engineers in Investment Design, if I translate it correct. I would like just to compare membership requirements with these in other countries.

It may be like this in theory and practice, but in real life it is completely different.
The favourite sentence of my army sergeant

 

[tygerdawg]

In simple terms:
1. Take & pass the Fundamentals of Engineering exam. This is a review of the things you learned in your university studies. Then you are designated "EIT" or Engineer In Training.
2. Work four years under another licensed Professional Engineer "PE" as an EIT.
3. Take & pass the Professional Engineering licensing exam for your technical area, in your state.
4. Take a certain number of classes to continually upgrade your skills to maintain your PE license and status.
5. Seek licensure in any other state necessary through reciprocity agreements between states.

In realistic terms:
(a) PE needed for civil, structural, HVAC engineering, utilities & building work...that sort of thing. I never had need for my PE while I worked in manufacturing or machine design industries. It looks good on the resume, though.
(b) As an EIT I worked under a variety of senior engineers who had (and did not have) PEs for four years to meet that particular requirement. I was able to get the necessary number of PEs to sign my PE application as references, though. So did this rigorously follow the procedure? Nope. But I took & passed the exam and got my license anyway.
(c) I think almost ALL states have in their lawbooks the statement that says that the only person who can legally be called an engineer is a person who is a licensed PE.
(d) Most govenment institutions and industries will ignore that. Anyone, with any qualification or education, can be given the title of "engineer" in this country by company managers, regardless of education or qualification.

TygerDawg

 

[zdas04]

To expand on Tygerdawg's good explaination, in (a) I'd add "typically you need a PE on staff (sometimes as an owner or director) to have the word "Engineering" on a business license."



David Simpson, PE
MuleShoe Engineering

http://www.muleshoe-eng.com

Please see FAQ731-376 for tips on how to make the best use of Eng-Tips Fora.

The harder I work, the luckier I seem

 

[MiketheEngineer]

Two good responses!!

You could also check out

http://www.ncees.org

(or com) can't remember which.

 

[JStephen]

I get the impression that simply the term "engineer" has some variation from place to place as well. Generally, in the US, you'll go through high school (grade 12), then 4 to 4-1/2 years of college for an engineering degree. And the engineering education is oriented more towards theoretical topics, rather than hands-on type stuff. You can also get degrees in engineering technology.

 

[lz5pl]

Thank you all for these explanations. Your system seems very different from ours. Here in Bulgaria after 4 years in the university you graduate as a B.S. in your technical area and you may be called "engineer". One and half years more and you graduate as M.S., in my case M.S.E.E. (There is one specific point with older generation - before 1990 we all graduated as M.S., as we passed full five years course, about 52-55 courses, finishing with diploma project).
Graduated B.S. engineers can work on any position where engineering education is required, but they have no designer license. Only after 4 years work in design company under supervision of licensed designer they can apply for (and only) restricted design license, giving them right to design and stamp small projects.
Graduated M.S. engineers can apply immediately for restricted design license and after 2 years under supervision or 4 years independent work they can apply for full design license.
No any additional exams have to be taken for both levels, but list of references from supervisors and for completed projects must be presented with application. All licensed designers must be members of the Chamber of Engineers in Investment Design, which actually issue licenses and give stamps. Foreign engineers can apply also if they are graduated in universities which diploma are accepted here (I suppose at least all USA and EU universities), but would pass some exam on the language.


According to me this system should correspond more to European systems. I would be thankful if colleagues from other European countries also explain their system.






It may be like this in theory and practice, but in real life it is completely different.
The favourite sentence of my army sergeant

 

[Ussuri]

The UK system is regulated by the Engineering Council.

The route I went was as follows:

1) 4 years at university and graduated with an accredited degree. You now have to do 5 years to get an accredited degree.

2) Begin working as a graduate sign up for a Training Agreement and begin structured training under a Mentor to meet the requirements of the Engineering Council.

3) Sign off training agreement. Typically take 4-5 years. Signed off by the Institution.

4) Continue working with more responsibility as now 'signed off'.

5) Once yon feel ready submit for your Chartered Professional Review. Write two reports, one covering your expreiance and one covering a single project in detail. Sumit to the Institution along with recomendations from 4 sponsors.

6) Turn up at review and give a presentation to a panel of reviewers. This is followed by a load of questions on your presentation designed to show what you know. These are followed by more questions on any relevant topic. This takes an hour to an hour and a half. Then followed by a written essay exam to answer one of two set questions.

7) If you pass you can use the title Chartered Engineer.

Now, in the UK designs need to be certified, in particular with respect to Buildings to show the requirements of the Building Regulations have been met. In Scotland you must be registered with the Scottish Building Standards Agency to do this. Just being Chartered is not sufficient.

The Structural Engineers Registration Ltd administers the title of 'Approved Certifier of Design'

8) A further minimum 5 years post chartered experiance is required before submitting for assessment. You will then be assessed as to what you can certify. If your experience is in steel and timber, you will not be allowed to certify designs based on concrete and masonry for example.

I haven't done step 8 as it is not needed in my current line of work (oil and gas) but that gives you an idea of one route availble to UK engineers.

 

[lz5pl]

Thank you, Ussuri for the detailed explanation. UK system seems quite complicate, but in my view it should be like that to ensure real respect to the certificate. I hope that at least the salary of a Chartered Engineer worths to pass through all these steps !
One question only: what do you mean under "accredited degree" - probably it is equal to M.S.?


------------------------
It may be like this in theory and practice, but in real life it is completely different.
The favourite sentence of my army sergeant

 

[KENAT]

Ussuri, you say 4 years for an accredited degree. By this do you mean an MEng (Masters of Engineering for non UK folks)?

Although I started on 4 year Masters course I dropped down to bachelors and got my BEng Honours in 3 years.

While the route of going chartered was through RAeS for aerospace I dont' recall that I was going to need a Masters.

lz5pl Try googling for chartered engineer and electrical engineer etc and you should find the websites of the relevant bodies, for instance

http://www.theiet.org/aboutus/

 

[Ussuri]

A 'accredited' degree is a degree for which the content has been assessed by an Institution to ensure it meets their academic requirements for membership.

When I did my degree the accredited degrees were Bachelors Degrees (Which in Scotland were 4 years, compared to 3 in England). However, certainly for my institution a Bachelors degree is no longer considered adequate academically, it must be a Masters (5 years in Scotland versus 4 in England).

That said if you did your degree before they changed the rules (1997 I seem to remember) then it probably was accredited.

But I honestly have no idea if the CEng route in aerospace bears any resemblance to the route I took.

 

[KENAT]

I forgot that Scotland has differences in its education system.

 

[kchayfie]

If you started your degree before September 1999, a bachelors degree is sufficient for chartership. If you started your degree after then, you either need to have completed masters degree or to complete what they call "matching sections" which seem to be extra courses equivalent to bringing your degree up to masters standard.

If your degree is 'accredited' it means that the relevant institution has verified that your course content meets their requirements. If you don't have an accredited degree, you can still make an application but they will have to look at the course content as well as the fact that you have a degree to make sure that you meet the minimum educational requirements. This usually costs more!

The specifics of the application process are slightly different for each engineering discipline and I seem to remember the electricals having a big overhaul a couple of years ago. It will mostly follow Ussuri's example of several years post-graduate experience, a written report detailing work experience to date and verified by your supervisor(s), references from colleagues with CEng status and a professional interview to prove you know what you're talking about.

I am in the process of applying for Chartered Chemical Engineer status and I'm waiting for my interview. I'm looking forward to the pay rise when its all finished!