Right of the owner to hire another consulting firm or Engr. to conduct the analysis?

[mylife2014]

This is a legal concern, hoping to hear ideas from anybody who has knowledge regarding this issue:

The situation is that the building is very old say around 40 to 50 years old already. The owner hired a consulting firm (let's name this consultant - X) to do the assessment of the building to determine if it is still compliant with the current code requirements. The Engineer of record (EOR) is from another party. With this, the EOR is claiming for their right, wherein they should be the one to conduct the assessment and not consultant-X. Is their a law stating such right for the EOR?

Please enlighten me with this.

Thank you very much

 

[XR250]

I don't think this is a legal issue. The owner can hire anyone they want and the EOR can decide to walk away from the job if they want or contractually negotiate out the liability of Firm X.

 

[mylife2014]

Thanks for your opinion XR250.
Yah I am not sure if this is legal.
I don't know if it's in the code of ethics or any government issued policy.

 

[dik]

Some thoughts or questions:

-The 'EOR' is the engineer hired by the owner for the renovations. The 'additional engineer' is the engineer hired by the owner to undertake the assessment.
-Why did the owner hire an additional engineer to provide an assessment? Does the owner have confidence in the EOR?
-What does the additional engineer 'bring to the table' that the EOR is not able to?
-Does the EOR take exception or disagree with any parts of the additional engineer's assessment?
-Does the building have to conform to the current code; some jurisdictions have waivers for current compliance. Depending on the degree of disagreement, the EOR may want to walk away from the project.
-Is the area one of seismic activity? This may have an impact on 'grandfathering'.
-It is essential that the EOR has full control over the work and that the owner be clearly advised of this.

Edited, and finally fixed.

Dik

 

[JAE]

Why is an EOR from 40 years ago involved?


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[jayrod12]

Just speculation, is it possible he's talking a new EOR on a reno/retrofit project?

As in,
1) they had eng X do a building assessment.
2) They then hired Eng Y to do design and detailing for the new project as the EOR.
3) Eng Y said, we need to do our own assessment of the building regardless of what's written in Eng X's report. So here's our new fee proposal.

 

[msquared48]

Money, JAE. Money.

Mike McCann, PE, SE (WA)

 

[JAE]

Mike,
Not sure I follow you on that. My question is that this is an old building and the original post seem to imply an EOR from 40 years ago. Or is there a new EOR for some new project or effort on the building?

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[dhengr]

Mylife2014:
Certainly, the original EOR has a vested interest, particularly if the investigation/assessment turns up areas, details or design issues which put him in a bad light. He has a right to defend his design if the owner drags him into process, but it is unlikely that his original contract stated that his design from 1960-70 would meet all future code reqr’mts. 50 years down the pike. It is also unlikely that his original design contract named him as the only engineer who could ever be involved on the bldg. in the future. The bldg. has stood for 50 yrs. and we assume has performed adequately, no significant problems and through some fairly severe loadings, so that says something for the adequacy of his original design.

Your statement.... “do the assessment of the building to determine if it is still compliant with the current code requirements.” is a little out of wack. It will likely not be in complete compliance with all current code requirements, it was not designed for some/many of them. And, any new modifications, additions, etc. might require that the owner bring some things into compliance as part of the new work on the bldg. This shouldn’t normally reflect on the original EOR either.

 

[BAretired]

The owner has the right to retain anyone he wants to perform the assessment. The EOR does not have the right to be retained to perform the assessment.

Professional ethics vary, but in most jurisdictions, Engineer X would likely be expected to discuss his findings with the EOR if it reflected badly on his work, before submitting his assessment to the client.

BA

 

[msquared48]

JAE:

I did get it.

Large firms can go on for many years, as can the principals. I have myself. The EOR just does not want to lose who hebpercieves as a client, old or otherwise.

The owner, or client, calls the shots though.




Mike McCann, PE, SE (WA)