Sabbatical, School, or New Job? In which order? 2

[LogicalCompetence]

I graduated two years ago with a BSME and took a job with an automaker (which I had co-op’d with prior) as a manufacturing engineer. I told myself I wouldn’t do this because my dream is to help design and develop the world’s best cars, not develop the processes/equipment of building them (cool but not for me). I took the job because my applications into the entry-level jobs for R&D-related roles were not yielding much of a return. I only had 20% automaker product testing/design experience, and 80% automaker mfg. eng. on my resume. I also didn't do FSAE (the one thing I regret), but I was on a race team. I wasn't desperate yet and could have stuck it out and continued looking but I also didn't want to be a fool. I told myself I’d stay only 2yrs, take advantage of benefits, then I must leave.

Adding to the mix, I have dealt with some personal mental health issues over the past 10 yrs and I want to take a 1-2 month sabbatical to decouple from working and focus on myself. I’ve never really had much of a break since school was 5yrs non-stop class & co-op and now this job I started only two weeks after graduation. My employer has no policies permitting sabbaticals or non-emergency LOAs. I’ll try asking my psychologist for a recommendation letter for the unpaid 2 months off. This job is crazy stressful and can be up to 80hrs/wk doing something I am not satisfied with. I feel I am wasting my time (and thus my life!) and I just passed the two year mark, so I am late. My sanity and happiness are more important than the extra money, and this job isn't helping much anymore, I get worse as time goes on. I want to leave and work on the life I dream about and feel I deserve a shot at. I also want to get a Masters of Engineering, non-thesis degree since I am unsure of what I’d want to research but I want to get the graduate degree out of the way before I get old, plus I like both Mech. and Elec. I don't want to paint myself into a mechanical corner any more than I already am. I have money saved up to live for exactly seven months + emergency cash, if I jump ship now. But I keep reading that leaving a job without another lined-up is guarenteed suicide.

I can’t jump ship tomorrow without at least a solid plan anyway. So to help with the new job hunt, I’ve been reading ‘Headhunter Hiring Secrets’ by Skip Freeman, to ensure I am conducting my job search effectively since the last time I searched (last year of college for this initial post-grad job) I didn't feel strongly considered for what I wanted and basically took what was given.

So the question is, do I leave here before I have another job and just take a sabbatical then look for a new one? Do I wait and go direct to a new job and just do a master’s part time (possibly have the employer pay for the classes)? Do I go straight back to school full-time for the masters? How does an employer view returning to school full time and only working part-time during that period?

What is an aspiring automotive engineer to do? Thank you for reading.

 

[rotw]

If I was in your shoes, health should be the first priority.
Make sure you are surrounded with people, friends, family to support you with their love.
Regarding how to manage the stress, at a rate of 80 h/wk you are going straight to a burnout. If you reached this rate of 80 h/wk I assume partly it is your fault.

I don't know about your work but first try to slow down gradually to 50 h/wk as a target.
Use the breaks and week ends to the full extent, to relax so that first you exit the whirlpool.

My advice is to not leave a job without a solid back up plan. The master will bring some added value in your resume but not as professional experience do from my point of view. It might become also a stressful situation to feel that you have no income after you spend say 6 months or so in the Master. A master that is fully paid by mean of a scholarship can be a fix, not sure you it will bring you the job of your dream straight away.

Not sure about the reaction of your current employer if you tell them your plan to go for a part time master (as apparently they expect a lot of work from you). It might put you in a situation of troubles.

So I would suggest to first slow down your fast paced activities at your current job (for example delegate more tasks, learn to say NO politely but firmly). Use the breaks to relax and replenish yourself. Then you can prospect for a possible different job in which you will find more motivation. But that takes time and perseverance.

Don't give up man and you are young don't waste this. It will never come back again.

 

[rotw]

I would like to add that you deserve lot of merit for having working so hard in such adverse health conditions. Respect!

 

[77JQX]

"But I keep reading that leaving a job without another lined-up is guarenteed suicide." I disagree. It's a career setback. You need to balance that against the probability that you're not doing your best in your current situation, which can also have negative effects on your career.

Returning to school and working part time is a legitimate strategy to better yourself and employment prospects. I don't think there's any stigma about that.

Health and happiness come before career, at least in my book. Take care of yourself first.

 

[DKirkham]

I am in the automotive industry. I think you may be a bit surprised at what ME's in the automotive industry actually do. We have worked with large manufacturers at the top levels. The field is brutal and 80 hour weeks are not uncommon. The competition is fierce throughout the career path, and many of your competitors can be downright mean. Many Me's can spend their entire career designing "door handles." I am not sure that is what you want to do. The dream of designing a car is a very detailed, expensive, difficult, and risky endeavor--and there are few who actually do it.

Manufacturing Engineering. WOW! That is my passion. I understand that may not be your passion, but I'd encourage you to read "The Machine That Changed The World." There is something special about an ME that becomes a manufacturing engineer. They are literally worth their weight in gold. There is always a natural tension between mechanical engineers and manufacturing engineers. Mechanicals understand WHY a part is designed the way it is and then figure out how to make it. Manufacturing engineers with an ME background bridge the gap between design and production. Remember, designs can't be sold. Only the actual part can be sold.

You have to play the hand you are dealt. I'd be extremely wary of leaving a good paying job. They are so hard to come by.

Take care of your health. Steer toward something you love. Work hard in something you love and work becomes much easier.

David

http://www.kirkhammotorsports.com

 

[SLTA]

I left a job with no prospects, and a month later got the best job I ever had, other than owning my own company. Keep with it, and prayers.

 

[LogicalCompetence]

rotaryworld: Thank you for your reply. The 80hrs/wk is normal for the peak times of a model change where I work. Some engineers do more. Mostly its due to the cramped timeline we have to retool current production equipment plus our vast spectrum of responsibilities. We are understaffed and its clear as day we need more people but they hire people who are new and the lack of training ends up causing a lot of pain later. Then the seasoned people leave. Etc. This is part of the frustration and stress I have there. None of the stress is from any type of pure technical challenge, can't enjoy the job for all the silly internal strife stemming from poor planning and lack of resources. At my pay grade, all I can do is try to make the best of it but I'm tired of that already partly because I don't care about making anything happen for this particular company. I don't believe in it's fake mission and I work too much to further my own mission outside of work!! I'm stuck both ways!

DKirkham: Thank you also for your reply. I think as an Engineer doing Engineering work, I will be paid a respectable market value for that type of work, and I should be okay with that, especially if it's something I want to do. I'm willing to take a pay cut from where I am to go somewhere I want to be. I don't need to be given gold every other week, I need the opportunity to make my own every day. Manufacturing engineering is important and I don't knock it's importance, I just have a different dream and I want to move to different/bigger city also. My initial plan was exactly to play the hand I was dealt, but I have failed to make anything of it after two years. So right now on bad days I feel like I need to just stop and reboot because I fear part of the reason I failed to play this hand well is also one of the reasons I need time off to reboot. I may very well be burnt out on a larger scale than this job. On good days I can just continue working hard while also planning my escape. Either way I refuse to say, it would be a sin to do this to myself anymore.

77JQX: Thank you for your input also. I hope this is true because doing those both at the same time could be a great backup plan.

More input is very welcomed...

 

[oldestguy]

There was a post some time back by a fella that took a year off to travel. While a little break may not be as bad, the result of such a move does not sit well with someone you are looking to hire you. While mental handicaps can be difficult, I would doubt that a short break sill resolve them. So, you might as well face it, those hangups will be there a long time and you gotta eat. Your bold face type summary says it all. As to what advice to listen to, us old guys have been around many a situation and have seen it all. You decide. I'm only 85 and still working some.

 

[DKirkham]

LC,

Two things you said struck me--although in different ways. You mentioned, "I don't care about making anything happen for this particular company." I imagine your management knows this. Perhaps that is why you aren't happy.

Life is a marathon--that never ends (well, at least until you do). The secret to happiness in life is to be happy as you run. Your comment, "I don't need to be given gold every other week, I need the opportunity to make my own every day" makes me think of one of my great former employees who came in to ask me for some advice as he was nearing graduation (Manufacturing Engineer). He told me his dream was to work in NASCAR. I explained to him there were very, very few people who made it in NASCAR. I asked him if he knew anyone in the industry. He replied, "No." I asked him how he was planning on getting hired on as an engineer on a NASCAR team when no one knew him and no one was going to let him into their secret racing world. He replied, "I'll knock on doors and offer to sweep the floor. I'll keep knocking until someone lets me in." I told him he was crazy. He had a sure job with our company after graduation. He said that although he loved our company, he wanted to chase his NASCAR dream he had his whole life. I explained every reason I could think of why he shouldn't take such a risk. Then, right as he was about to leave, I leaned over and said, "I have given you my best advice. But, look at me. I took off to Poland to build replicas of Cobras. How crazy is that? Everyone told me I'd fail too. I didn't listen to them, and I don't want you to listen to a word of what I have said either. Go out and chase your dream." He took his wife and moved to North Carolina with nothing but a dream. He knocked on doors until someone let him in. He swept their floors.

Today he is the team engineer on a top NASCAR team.

David

http://www.kirkhammotorsports.com

 

[LogicalCompetence]

Two things you said struck me--although in different ways. You mentioned, "I don't care about making anything happen for this particular company." I imagine your management knows this. Perhaps that is why you aren't happy.

True not caring for the organization doesn't help, and actually can give me a somewhat negative attitude when things go sour due to how they conduct business, and in that way it can make me unhappy to be there. But management isn't really treating me anyway in particular because of what they may know about my desire to move on to a different department, I am treated similar to the other senior engineers (at over 2yrs experience I am considered one of the more experienced engineers...). So maybe.

I agree with the marathon image. I just want to get my foot into the right one. This one is not the most optimal for me and I want to take a breather before I go into a new one. oldestguy: I see what you are saying there but my thing is I just want the time even if it doesn't "fix" everything, at least I learn that it won't like that and I won't be wondering later if something with me gets worse. Ya know, those "what if's".

Thank you all. I am going to have to make a decision and do it soon.

 

[rotw]

LogicalCompetence,

Not sure if you are still open to receive further advice on this thread. Anyway this is a quick note.

In (apparently) complex decision process, just apply simple heuristic.

- Have a back up plan (whatever it is, it shall be clearly defined).

quote :

“Man cannot survive except through his mind. He comes on earth unarmed. His brain is his only weapon. Animals obtain food by force. man had no claws, no fangs, no horns, no great strength of muscle. He must plant his food or hunt it. To plant, he needs a process of thought. To hunt, he needs weapons,and to make weapons - a process of thought. From this simplest necessity to the highest religious abstraction, from the wheel to the skyscraper, everything we are and we have comes from a single attribute of man -the function of his reasoning mind.”
― Ayn Rand, The Fountainhead

 

[loki3000]

I think you may be a bit surprised at what ME's in the automotive industry actually do.

hello DKirkham,
can you please explain this more in depth? from an oem and the parent company (i.e. bmw) if possible.

thanks

 

[DKirkham]

loki3000,

Thank you for your question.

I'll answer in the context of the original comment where LC stated his dream is to, "design and develop the world’s best cars."

In our experience, engineers with large OEM companies (I am speaking of our dealings with the heads of engineering, design, suspension) all worked on some small project for many, many years--hence, my comment about "door handles." In the beginning, a car is "designed" by an artist. When the car finally looks right and gets signed off by upper management, the design is passed off into a number of different departments, interior, suspension, drive train, etc. Each of these departments go back and forth with each other wanting things changed. Maybe the suspension guys need more room in the fenders for bigger wheels; maybe the interior guys need to have more cup holders. Every one of these things impact how the car will finally look. Critically, every one of these tiny changes requires an extremely experienced engineer to design the part. For example, consider a steering wheel. It has to pass safety; it has to crush; it has to feel right; it has to look right; it has to accept turn signals (another entirely different field); it has to accept a bomb (the air bag--again, an entirely different field); it has to not degrade in the sun; it has to be made within budget.

The guy (or gal, there are extremely competent women in engineering, my niece works on nuclear propulsion systems) who does this work must have a lot of experience to know what to do and how to integrate all these things. Finally, keep in mind, the OEM may very well sub an entire field (such as the interior) out to an entirely different Tier 1 supplier who is completely separate from the OEM. Parts are so complicated today that an engineer can spend his or her entire career designing "door handles." Only after many years and competing with many other engineers can someone make it to the head of the interior (whatever) department. That is a long way from "designing" an entire car.

Developing "the world's best cars" requires an entirely different set of skills.

David

http://www.kirkhammotorsports.com