salary negotiation advice needed ASAP!!! 2

[AeroEng33]

i interviewed with an aerospace engineering company a couple of weeks ago, at the time they asked for my salary info and i didn't give it out. the HR recruiter said it would be ok because they based the offers on your ability and work experience. during the interview with the program manager it was evident that they were going to make me an offer. last week the HR told me they were going to make me an offer but were still working on the numbers.
i got a voice mail from the HR recruiter today asking for my most recent salary info. can someone please let me know what a proper response should be?

everyone i talk recommended that i dont' accept anything less than 75K - 85K, and i'm currently way below that. i have two more interviews with different companies this week.

thanks!

 

[GregLocock]

Tell him you'll send him yours if he'll send you his.



Cheers

Greg Locock

 

[MadMango]

If you are not in dire straights to find a new job, there is no harm is asking for the $75-85k range.

[green]"I think there is a world market for maybe five computers."[/green]
Thomas Watson, chairman of IBM, 1943.
Have you read faq731-376 to make the best use of Eng-Tips Forums?

 

[ewh]

You can ask for your desired rate, but that is not the same as your most recent salary info. Don't get caught up in a lie.

 

[MadMango]

I wasn't advocating lying, sorry if that came across that way. You can give them your salary (don't forget overtime if that applies) and still request a higher salary. Just remember that a 20% increase is considered good.

[green]"I think there is a world market for maybe five computers."[/green]
Thomas Watson, chairman of IBM, 1943.
Have you read faq731-376 to make the best use of Eng-Tips Forums?

 

[AeroEng33]

i think i'll jsut tell him that he told me my salary history was not required and i dont' feel comfortable giving that information out. what if i don't accept the offer? then i'd have given out private info...

 

[CorBlimeyLimey]

It is obvious that they want to know your existing salary so they can increase it just enough to make it worth the switch. You are quite within your right to (politely) point out that, as a matter of principle, the salary you are currently receiving should have no bearing on what they should be willing to offer you and then let them know what you are prepared to accept. You could also let them know that other companies are not asking (note present, not past, tense) for that information (assuming the're not), which lets them know that other companies are interested in you.

You have a job which pays the bills (presumably) & therefor should not be have to accept the first thing that comes along.

& all the best.

 

[AeroEng33]

thanks all for the advices... i just got back with the HR person and here is what happened...

reminded him that we had discussed this issue before and he told me the info would not be required. told him it's personal info and i dont' feel comfortable giving it out.

after a moment of silence he then reminds me they are requiring previous paystub *ONCE* you start working at the company (it's a major aerospace company).

i asked if that was a new policy and reiterated me being uncomfortable about disclosing it. i then asked him what is the budget alloted for this position. he said he could not answer that but gave me a range and told me the approximate numer they are thinking about offering me. the number was approx 60K...

i then reminded him that accoridng to my supervisor i'm supposed to get a promotion that would take my salary above 60K, and that cost of living around his company is wayyy higher than my current location.

finally he asked me what's my expectation and i said based on my research i found the range to be 75-80K and he said he would go back and discuss it and get back to me.

60K is just low-balling me...

 

[GregLocock]

You handled that well, I think. Of course, you telling him 75-80 really means 75 to him!

I always find it worth setting what I would actually settle for before they start talking numbers, otherwise it is too easy to get caught up in the excitement of a new job without thinking it through.





Cheers

Greg Locock

 

[AeroEng33]

well, i really enjoyed my interview with managers. it was enjoyable becaue i felt they were being straightforward and honest with me. there was one guy who i enjoyed talking to but we mutualy agreed that he had no suitable positions for me. bottom line is i felt i like i would enjoy working for/with these people... but after this HR negotiation round 1 i'm havign 2nd thoughts... the fact that he told me they require new employees to submit old paystub tells me he's not being honest with me... there goes the trust factor already..

i've got two more interviews friday and i hope they turn out better than this one... it's too bad because i was looking forwad to working for this first company

 

[quark]

Don't be too overhelmed by the interviewers. The fellow I thought as a Gentleman during my interview proved to be the worst boss, subsequently.

If you agree for a lower salary because the company is good or the boss is good and etc. you will start bothering from the day one, when you know somebody equal to you draws a better salary.

It is a common practice in India asking for salary details(with total break up) and we do give those details. We don't have any problems so far. Is this problem subjective?

Regards,

 

[GregLocock]

No, I agree with the original poster. They should make you an offer relative to the pay of others in the same organisation, not relative to what you are currently paid.



Cheers

Greg Locock

 

[HVAC68]

You should get based on what the organisation offers to similar candidates already working there. If they offer less, then you will never be satisfied. If they offer more, then it will "rock the boat" and the existing employees may not be satisifed.

Sometimes, one may feel that he/she's worth more than what an employer can offer. Then he/she does't take the offer.

I agree with quark - It's very common in some parts of the world to ask what your salary is - may not be acceptable in many other parts of the world, and may even be treated as infringement of privacy.

HVAC68

 

[jsummerfield]

In a perfect world, a department manager and the HR types should try to fit your experience in consideration with people already on board - along with the availability of people and their need.

Do not stretch your income on an application. They can find this information out. One can and should be fired for lying on an application.

John

 

[AeroEng33]

well i have no intention of lying about my income. what i told the recruiter was correct (i've been told i will get a promotion soon and that will take my current salary higher than his inital offer). i just didn't appreciate the recruiter's tactic. do they get an incentive for low-balling candidates? i gotta think they get bonus for saving the dept. cost.

aerospace is a funny industry, when the engineers are in high demand the companes will throw out money at everyone trying to get bodies into the company and when the projects are done they say bye to them.

i've been told by one of the managers during the interview that they are in the process of ramping up their workforce, and they have a lot of positions to fill, so i guess we'll just see what happens.

 

[ctopher]

Major aerospace companies have certain guidelines they now have to follow. Some guidlines are directed from government and some from military. When they have big contracts from either agency, their guidlines trickle down thru the company to the employees. So, the hiring process is difficult, especially with salary, because certain $$ are alloted per dept/employee from programs. It is very confusing and IMO sucks. As you know, it can take at least a month to go thru the hiring process at big aerospace companies.

Chris
Sr. Mechanical Designer, CAD
SolidWorks 05 SP0.1 / PDMWorks 05
ctopher's home site

 

[MintJulep]

I have NEVER been asked to provide a past paystub when starting a new job. I'm not sure that it is even legal.

Continue to point out that what you make now is not their concern. It may have been a bit of a misteak to have given them the 75K figure, but since they have invited you back for a second round after hearing that number it means that they do not consider it unreasonable. Try to avoid any further discussion until after an offer is made, this gives you an upper hand.

Arm yourself with salary information from the industry, and cost of living in the new area.

Since it appears that you will be moving you should also negotiate moving expenses into the deal.

Know your real bottom line, and be prepared to say "no thanks" if they won't go there.

Get EVERYTHING in writing. If they are unwilling to do so then you need to write it down in a letter to them. "I am writing to confirm our discussions of ....."

 

[IRstuff]

You can try

http://www.salary.com

to get an idea of what the min/med/max salary would be for your job classification.

TTFN

 

[AeroEng33]

i've browsed thru salary.com but the average they have does not match the numbers i am getting from other people, so i am very hesistant to go by their numbers.

 

[ARenko]

If they ask me for my salary info I usually politely tell them I prefer that they make an offer first before discussing my current salary. Sometimes it can make for an uncomfortable moment in the interview, and maybe some effort on their part to coax it out of me, but I try to stand firm and I've never felt it made a negative impact (worked on last two jobs).

If an interviewer asks me how much I expect to make for the job I usually say something like "I'm sure you will come up with a suitable figure based on my experience and the job requirements." Like above, they may prod some more, so I might ask them if they're prepared to make me an offer. I say it in a light way (if you know what I mean) not to seem cold or too businesslike. Since they're usually not at the offer point (they always seem to ask this early on) they usually just move on to the next question.

The thing is you have to make the hiring manager want you first. If you talk money too early they may eliminate you based on their bottom line, or they may be encouraged to lowball you.