Sect IX..Welder Qualification

[steakman911]

A guy tests out using F3/F4 on SA106B 6" Sch 80 coupon.
He gets a ticket that says he is qualified in base materials P1 - P11, P15E and in many places in Ab, that is governed by whether the company he works for actually has Qualified-Registered Procedures with ABSA for those base materials. So assuming his company does...

....why would that qualify him to weld 316L or Duplex base materials given that the elctrode class is F5 for Austenitic SS and Duplex.???
No place in the 35 years that I have been working, first a welder, and in the later years as a CWI (CWB Level II), have I ever seen those base materials welded with F4 electrodes. This does not make sense to me.

I can see this guy being qualified to weld P1-P5X,P9,P10A,B,C, P11X-P15X...but not P8-P10H (as an aside, I think the 10H grouping should be changed to P8 with a subset.)

Somebody explain to me the reasoning of this change in Sect IX .. of taking the F4 electrodes and splitting these up in to two seperate groups such as F5 and F4 while talking about essentially the same Filler metal specification SFA 5.4.??

Where they not, if memory serves me correctly correct...all in F4 at one time..?

Am I out to lunch here or just gettin too damned old...LOL.?

Thank you,

 

[weldstan]

E3XX electrodes have been in F No. 5 for at least 45 years.
The welding characteristics of F no. 5 electrodes are highly dissimilar to those of F4 electrodes - just ask any welder.

 

[steakman911]

stan..I appreciate the response. There are definitely differences between 7018 and a 308L-15 but not that much../.;but thats not my main question



It does not make sense to me when a guy is qualified P1-P8, P15 with F3/F4 yet not all of those base materials can be welded with F4 electrodes. So why is he qualified as such.?

I simply do not get that whatsoever. I understand the F5 thing but the above not.

 

[DekDee]

For a welder to be able to weld in accordance with ASME IX they must comply with all of the essential variables of QW 351.
A change in F number requires requalification so if they qualify with an F4 they cannot weld with an F5 - irrespective of what base metals they are qualified to.
Regards,
DD

 

[weldstan]

He really isn't, unless the employer also has a welding procedure qualified on P8, P10H, P3X or P4X materials using an F4 electrode.

 

[steakman911]

DekDee:
I am fully aware of essential variables and how they relate to procedure and performance qualification...but AGAin, my question stands - how can you add P8 qualification if a performance test was done using F3/F4 filler metals.? My belief is that you cannot. Yet I see this all the time from accredited organizations on welders Qual cards.


Stan:
Exactly my point. So why do Qualification cards even state that he is.? No Company that I know over the past 35 yrs in this business would ever have a Procedure for P8 mtls using F4 electrodes. Simply does not make sense as such to qualify a guy for P8 when in real world he will never use an E7018-1 type on any P8 material. Maybe on a farm - but sure as hell not in any piping fab shop.

That is something I think that needs to be changed.

 

[weldstan]

Essentially employer representatives take the easy way out by simply restating Code instead of limiting the welder qualification appropriate to the materials that truly can be welded and for which the employer has qualified WPSs. Unfortunately, this can lead to welders making welds for which they are not qualified and would require removal of that weld after the fact. I have seen welds in stainless steel (more than once) using E7018 electrodes, accepted by an AI, when the WPS was not so qualified.