Seeking opinions/experiences on Ener-Tec LKC non-chem water treatment 1

[GeneratorGrrl]

Cross-posting this to the water-treatment forum as well...

I've been approached by a representative for Ener-Tec, offering their "Linear Kinetic Cell" non-chemical water treatment. This appears to be an electromagnet and is alleged to cause minerals to "behave like tiny magnets when exposed to the electromagnetic energy field. This energy is sufficient to align the dipoles, forming a molecular chain, and these minerals will no longer form scale."

I'll keep my initial opinions to myself and simply ask for professional experiences and opinions based on facts. Has anyone had any dealings with this company and/or its products? Weigh in with positives and negatives? To me, this sounds like it defies the laws of physics and chemistry; does it?

Many thanks in advance


"Eat well, exercise regularly, die anyways."

 

[TBP]

Ask these questions:

1/ Does the unit have any approvals for it's intended purpose from a recognized body such as CSA, ASME, UL, etc. (Not that I know of.) I saw one once with a CSA sticker on the side of it, but it was for the electrical components, since it plugged into a 120V wall outlet. The approval sticker had nothing to do with the supposed function of the unit.

2/ Have any manufacturers of equipment like boilers, chillers, cooling towers etc approved this device for use on their equipment? (Not that I know of.)

3/ How do you test the unit to ensure it's working/still working? (I've never seen one with a test.)

Caveat emptor.

 

[GeneratorGrrl]

Thank you, TBP, have a star These are just what I need to jump through the hoops flawlessly when I have to meet with this rep.

Thanks again


"Eat well, exercise regularly, die anyways."

 

[TBP]

There's someone else (I can't remember who) who posts on this site with a quote under his name, that I really like, and I think it applies perfectly to this situation: the plural of "anecdote" is not "data". It may be useful to remember that quote

 

[tickle]

I seem to remember there was a very good discusion on this subject in the past. I would like to propose that you do a search and have a read.

 

[GeneratorGrrl]

Tickle, I did do a search before posting. However, my higher-ups are not engineers and have trouble accepting that this company's "linear kinetic cell" is the same product as some other company's gizmo, because it doesn't *say* that it is. They're just seeing the dollar figures. I have to prove my case with facts and outside experiences, hence asking for this company name specifically. As far as I know, there isn't an industrial equivalent to ePinions.com, so I did the best I could.


"Eat well, exercise regularly, die anyways."

 

[lilliput1]

As them for a list of refences. Companies, people names, phone numbers of satisfied users. Check them out.

 

[TBP]

lilliput1 - Don't take that route. These outfits typically provide the list of people who really believe that these things work. You'll wind up in an "Is not! Is too!" kind of playground argument. My experience is very much that they SEEM to work, where there are no problems anyway. There are a quite a number of people who swear these devices work, in the field. However, these results can never, to my knowledge, be duplicated under lab conditions.

I always stick with the documentation aspect. They've either got it, or they don't. If they've got it, (I've been promised documentation a few times, but oddly enough never heard from the people flogging the particular "device" again.) it can easily be verified. If the MBA/accounting people keep pushing for the "big dollar savings" that are being dangled by the vendor, you've got a perfectly valid technical position: "You want me to use an unapproved water treatment device with NO documentation on this VERY expensive (and often high pressure) equipment? Really?"

 

[lilliput1]

You will still have to ask for references. It is your duty to check them out to make sure the references are vaild. Ask questions and arrarrage for a site visit to see for yourself. Usually dishonest people disapear when asked for references. They will just premise to send you a list but never deliver.

 

[TBP]

Dishonest people provide selective references. If someone likes "magic crystals" and "pyramid power", they'll love these purported water treatment things.

You'll be referred to or taken to plants where the systems are clean, or "cleaned-up". Why are they clean/now clean? Was the root problem mechanical (75% of the time, it is) and that situation was corrected? Or was it people who didn't know how to properly run a chemical water treatment program.

The manufacturers of these devices thrive on confusion. In the meeting, you will be put into the position, in front of your financial people (most of whom couldn't tell a circuit breaker from a pipe hanger), of having to disprove the vendor's claims. Unless you want to spend endless hours arguing with chemical goon-babble nonsense, stick with the documentation position. If you get pressed to "dig deeper" by your higher-ups, get the printed "technical explaination" of how these things are supposed to work, and show it to a chemist. Don't pick a water treatment chemist, because they'll be viewed as "tainted". Take it to a nearby university chemistry department. Watch the professor's face as he reads the material. My favourite is the "eye roll".

Insist on valid documentation before you spend 10 more seconds investigating this device. You'll save a LOT of time. Otherwise, prepare to spend countless hours trying to explain, to non-technical people, that there is no scientific basis demonstrating that "pryamid power" works.

 

[GenB]

TBP, approval from FM, CSA, UL standars mean that the device is safe to use mechanically and/or electrically, there is no endorsement that the unit will work as claimed by the Mfr.
2- I am dealing with small boilers for 30 years and I have seen water softeners and the so called inline pipes in the eighties and now thew new "cells",
softeners seem to do the job better if you maintain them correctly and test your water daily.
and I also have experience with the "pipes" and I have seen a lot of boilers get destroyed by them.
The so called "Cells" seem to work in the same principle and in my opinion they just do not work.
I heard that a couple years ago, the 2 300hp boilers at the GETTY museum in L.A. had to be retubed for they had used
the cells or pipes (I believe they moved to std, softeners with chemicals.
ER

 

[TBP]

There is, however, an ASME publication "Consensus On Operating Practices For The Control Of Feedwater And Boiler Water Chemistry In Modern Industrial Boilers".

There are also any number of codes and regulations that I'm not familiar with, so that's why I wrote "etc" on the end of my little list, to leave it open for any recognized, applicable code body.

 

[deanc]

Just for grins. Try a Google "magnetic water treatment facts"

Found one with links.

http://www.chem1.com/CQ/magscams.html