Seeping heads causing external corrosion 2

[sprinklerguy14]

Sprinkler seepage, corrosion issues

We are seeing a rash of leaking, corroded sprinkler heads, all of the late 80s to current vintage. Mostly Viking, Reliable, and Tyco. looking for anyone seeing the same, or possible causes. We have done numerous lab tests with no smoking gun to date. We did find some out of the box reliable G heads with both torn or delaminating teflon on the seats. thread184-343162

 

[MatthewJWillis]

What's the temp in the area?

I think you may be seeing solder creep..

R/
Matt

 

[cdafd]

Is it bluish??

And looks like a mineral build up?

 

[sprinklerguy14]

Let me give a little history. In 2011 we had a sprinkler head develop a pinhole leak at the seat in a high rack book storage facility. That single incident caused over $100,000 in damage, and further investigation turned up other corroded and/or leaking heads throughout the facility. We did a wholesale replacement of the heads in 2012, and as of this years inspection they are showing corrosion again. Since this initial event, we have become much more hypersensitive to this condition, and have noted it in 15 different systems (buildings) to date. High priority facilities have have had complete replacements, the latest of which are corroded again within eleven months. We are talking about thousands of heads, multiple brands and models. We have done independent lab tests with Hughes and CTL of heads, pipe, water, and processes, all with no conclusive result, other than it is seepage causing corrosion, not corrosion causing the leaks. We are currently working with FM to see if they can figure it out. See the attached photos.

 

[TravisMack]

If you have done whole system replacements, then the only constant in that scenario is the water supply. It would have likely been different pipe (at least a different mill run), definitely different sprinklers, and different installer - even if same contractor.

My initial thought if everything has changed except one, and you still have the same problems, then that one thing should be more thoroughly investigated.

Travis Mack
MFP Design, LLC

http://www.mfpdesign.com

"Follow" us at

https://www.facebook.com/pages/MFP-Design-LLC/92218417692

 

[cdafd]

Sprinklerguy

Yep that is the bluish / mineral deposit I am talking about.

I think there is a name for it.

 

[sprinklerguy14]

I agree, and water has been our guess as well. Unfortunately water has been pulled from numerous systems, numerous times, and tested by numerous labs, all coming back with nothing found that should be contributing to this, and backed up by testing of the failed heads which found no internal corrosion issues. Another factor is that we take care of hundreds of buildings, many of which share this water system, and most are fine. Theories that have been put forth include trapped air, water hammer, pressure fluxuations, over pressurization, over torquing during install, aggressive water, and more. None of the testing to date has found any of these. All labs have come back with the corrosion is a result of the seepage, but no one has identified the cause. We have found brand new uninstalled heads with delaminated or torn Teflon, but if it was a manufacturing defect, it seems it would be being seen all over. We are beginning to get feedback that some people are starting to see it elsewhere, but still not enough for us to conclude that it's a product design issue.

One side note is that while we have seen this across many brands and models, we have not had any Reliable F1 heads present this condition, even when Tyco and Viking heads in the same facility do. We have also not seen any Victaulic heads show corrosion, but we have very few Vic heads in this area.

 

[TravisMack]

Where is your facility located? Just general area. I'm just curious.

Travis Mack
MFP Design, LLC

http://www.mfpdesign.com

"Follow" us at

https://www.facebook.com/pages/MFP-Design-LLC/92218417692

 

[sprinklerguy14]

Cornell University, Central NY. Attached map is just central campus. Our in house team performs all of the testing, inspection, maintenance, and smaller construction projects for all of these facilities, as well as many off campus properties. Larger projects go out to bid. The campus is served by our own water treatment plant, Bolton Point municipal, and city of Ithaca, all depending on where you are.

 

[cdafd]

sprinklerguy

You can send a question to NFSA expert of the day:::

http://www.nfsa.org/?page=EOD

 

[cdafd]

one of a building full of heads found

 

[sprinklerguy14]

Do you know the make and model on that head, and did anyone determine a cause or are you in the same boat we are?

 

[cdafd]

Sprinklerguy

Sorry do not have the info, people like to purge files around here.

It was installed in roughly 1996

I found the problem in 2006

I do have a note that they are "recalled heads".

In 16 years, only system I have found around here with the problem.

I am thinking your problem is the sprinkler heads themselves.

 

[cdafd]

Sprinklerguy

I think I found the super secret files

Appears it is a Central ESLO head 155 degree 14.5 K factor