Selecting a Fire Pump for High Piled Storage

[Ehendrix]

Ok for a short understanding of this job, it is an existing building, 23' to top of storage, 30' to peak. Now ESFR sprinkler will not work do to the massive amount of ductwork above and the fact that you are limited to moving around ESFR sprinkler to avoid obstructions. So I am left with CMSA or CMDA sprinklers.

The storage is plastic pallets with plastic bins that are not covered or encapsulated and stored in racks against the walls. With the issue of the ductwork I have chosen to select the density area method. So I have chosen based off table 16.2.1.3.2 storage over 22' to 25' max, commodity class 1, not encapsulated, 4' isles, no mandatory in rack sprinklers (the customer doesn't want them),used curves F & H, also apply figure 16.2.1.3.4.1 which says sprinkler density vs storage height.

I have no clue how to apply that last chart to my calc, also I am wanting to make sure I am on the right path. I have never done a system in a longgggggggggg time that was this choosy.

I can start to select my pump, but I want to make sure I am on the right path to selecting the design that I exactly need.

Any help is greatly appreciated.

 

[skdesigner]

Plastic pallets and plastic bins stored in racks to 23'? What makes you think it is a class 1 commodity?

R M Arsenault Engineering Inc.

http://www.rmae.ca

 

[Ehendrix]

My bad wrote it down wrong. Typing to fast.

 

[TravisMack]

If you are trying to avoid in-racks and if this is a group A plastic, then based on height, you may need to look at FIGURE 17.2.1.2.1(f). Then if you go to Note 2, you can do K17 sprinklers with .8/2000. However, you need to do some research to see if that figure applies. This will be much different than your Class I determination which was WAY OFF. You need to get out of Chap 16 and get into Chap 17.

Travis Mack
MFP Design, LLC

http://www.mfpdesign.com

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[Ehendrix]

Great thanks Travis, I had a feeling I was completely on the wrong track. I have never sized a pump for high piled storage before. Most of my projects in the past have been federal buildings and military bases.

One last question, is there any reason that you cannot use an ESFR head with a flat ceiling, I cant find any reason.

Thanks guys.

 

[TravisMack]

No reason. Sizing a pump for storage is really no different than sizing a pump for anything else.

Be certain that you are fully aware of all of the ESFR criteria. Many owners/developers think that ESFR is the panacea of fire protection. Basically, with an ESFR system, you have to build the building around the sprinklers.

Travis Mack
MFP Design, LLC

http://www.mfpdesign.com

"Follow" us at

https://www.facebook.com/pages/MFP-Design-LLC/92218417692

 

[LCREP]

You said

"The storage is plastic pallets with plastic bins that are not covered or encapsulated and stored in racks against the walls"


You can not use ESFR with open top containers as per NFPA 13.

Also did you talk to the insurance carrier? They may have additional requirements particularly for the sizing of the fire pump and the pump driver electric and or diesel. They may also mandate a 10 psi safety cushion on your hydraulic calculations. In most cases the pump should not churn more than 175psi.

A phone call now can save many $ on insurance premium on the life of the building.

If Factory Mutual is the carrier they do not follow NFPA.

Warehouses are so much fun about 50% of the warehouses I looked at as an insurance loss prevention rep the sprinkler protection was not adequate.

 

[chicopee]

"Warehouses are so much fun about 50% of the warehouses I looked at as an insurance loss prevention rep the sprinkler protection was not adequate." probably due to change in the use of the warehouses as one would see in many mills throughout New England.

 

[LCREP]

Oh yea we see all the crazy stuff

Sprinkler designed for ord grp 2 with a 30' ceiling

Solid shelving

ESFR obstructions

Poor water supply

Idle wood pallets stored to the roof

Stock in aisles

Fire pumps turned off, no one knows why

Sprinkler control valves turned off

Flammable and combustible liquid storage inadequate protection or no foam.

As noted most times the storage has changed BUT protection has not been upgraded to reflect the change in commodity

The joys of the insurance industry .....

 

[Ehendrix]

LCREP You hit the nail on the head I have informed them of that.