Septic System Design 1

[msquared48]

Anyone have any good simple references to design a residential septic system? Nothing complicated. It would also entail the standard method for doing a perc test. Sample calculations would help too. As a Civil, I am licensed to do this, but my forte is structural, and storm drainage design.

I have a friend that has a system that is 35 years old, could possiibly fail, and may have to install a new one. Believe it or not, all this is predicated because they are applying for a kennel license. She has no more than 200 pounds of small dogs, mostly 4 to 7 pounds.

Man, this is ridiculous in this economy. Now I am being roped into designing septic systems for dog kennels. This economy has really gone to the dogs.

Mike McCann
MMC Engineering

 

[kslee1000]

Dug a hole in the ground, and get bag of cleaning chemical, some dirt..Done

You maybe able to find a precast online, could be much cheaper. Just bill her dog for consulting fees.

 

[nackra]

http://cfpub.epa.gov/owm/septic/septic.cfm?page_id=268

Several years ago I helped a friend in OH with the same problem (he just had fewer larger dogs). Health department did NOT allow drains from kennel to connect to septic system (mound disposal). Bag-n-hole mentioned above is not far off.

Friend even had to plug the drain near the kennel to garage door so washing your shoes off couldn't drain to septic tank. Health dept restricted to human waste ONLY.

Good luck!

 

[msquared48]

nackra:

That restriction is ridiculous. E-coli is not a feces differentiating bacteria. Other than the LOGICAL complaint of overloading the septic tank and drainfield capacity, which can be enlarged, what is the problem with combining them? OMG... Dog flu combined with Human...OF COURSE! Damn terrorists!

Nevermind... it must be the money... just follow the money.

By the way, I have swine flu-like symptoms and have quarrantined myself. We, too, raise dogs. The peace is incredible. I'm thinking of doing this more often.

Mike McCann
MMC Engineering

 

[OldPaperMaker]

msquared48,
I have a book from the (US)EPA titled "Onsite Wastewater Treatment Systems Manual". I think that it is publication EPA/625/R-00/008 and it is dated February 2002. After reviewing the Manual I decided to stick with doing structural engineering.

I think that it was free but I don't remember how I found the web site to order it.

You might also try the State of Washington DOE.

Good luck on this activity.

 

[bimr]

nackra makes a good point. Make sure that you check the regulations in the state where the project is located.


Since you are planning on the use of a septic system, you probably should try to remove the feces off the floor and place it in a dumpster rather than wash it down the drain into the septic system.

Here is some help on the BOD side:

http://www.waterandwastewater.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl?board=general;action=display;num=1135799239

Kentucky State regulations call for a wastewater flow of 5 gallons per dog per day:

http://www.lrc.ky.gov/kar/902/010/085.htm

 

[bimr]

This was just discussed recently under this thread:

Dog kennel - outside runs
Thread161-67075

 

[davefitz]

alternate solution #1- train the dogs to behave as my neighbor's dog is trained- do it on someone else's lawn

alternate solution #2- spread the false story on twitter/myspace/youtube that dog doo is a green fertilizer and is ideal for your locally grown vegetables, and that it is a bargain at $2. /lb- then open a road side stand .

More to the point of the original question- NJ has a very detailed spec for designing OSS in their state laws, including perc specs, but the one missing technique not to be found in this code is the training for the in depth soil logs and soil color/ motling procedure.

 

[RHTPE]

msquared48: Which state are you dealing with?


Ralph
Structures Consulting
Northeast USA

 

[msquared48]

Washington...

bimr:

Interesting that in Kentucky, at 5 gallons per day per dog, Chihuauas produce as much effluent as Irish Wolf Hounds.

This shows the amount of thought put into environmental regulations. Regulators need to know the full impact and basics of what they are attempting to regulate. I would surely challenge that one based on 40 years of experience.

Mike McCann
MMC Engineering

 

[cvg]

effluent is generally a percentage of the influent. this can easily be measured on the water meter and calculated utilizing numerous methods. I would expect it to be 90% or greater. However, 5 gallons per day is likely quite accurate for any size dog as most of the water is used for cleaning the kennels, not for drinking.

 

[msquared48]

cvg:

We too operate a licensed kennel, with Yorkies - 2 to 10 pound dogs - and the water useage is much, much less. We, with our 10 adults, do not use 50 gallons per day - more like two, even with cleaning. It is a much smaller area to clean, and smaller animals. This is based on 12 years experience raising them.

I can understand the larger animals using this amount, but not ours, or our friends, as they, too, raise the same breed. They fall under another regulatory agency than us. We have not had to satisfy the same requirements as them to date. However, we are on sewer and they are on septic. Therein lies the difference in requirements.

Nevertheless, I feel that there has got to be some logic inserted into this equation. The operating procedures of every licensed kennel are not the same down to the knats eyebrow, and should not be legislated as so. To do so is micromanagement. It is also arbitrary and capricious - dangerous ground for a governmental regulatory agency.

Mike McCann
MMC Engineering

 

[ptmoss]

I would doubt very much to find a state that approved a septic system for a kennel and condition the approval to a certain breed, or size, of dog. Many states allow design based on one of two methods - unit flow, so it would be so many gallons/day/kennel run (not necessarily # of dogs, many kennels put multiple, compatible dogs sharing a run, typically when they're from the same family); or the second method is to find a similar sized facility on municipal water and use the actual water usage times a factor of safety, usually take quarterly readings, average them per day and apply a peaking factor of 2 or 3.

When I've done kennel septics I've been allowed to feed the floor drains into the septic as long as it goes through an oil/grit tank first. There's also the question of doggie shampoos, flea treatments, etc. that also get washed into the septic. Those are typically why drains aren't allowed to go into the septic, and the facility usually has to register as an injection well with EPA or the states' groundwater department.

Unit flows are 50 GPD/kennel in my neck of the woods. Water usage is, as mentioned above, cleaning water. Every kennel facility is different - where one might be a breeding kennel and only breed/board one particular breed of dog, others obviously take in every dog that pads through the door. Different water use. A larger kennel that has employees is also going to have different water usage than the husband/wife operation that is living in the same building, or attached to, as the kennel.

Finally, you're having to deal with a regulatory agency, hence no logic shall be found.

 

[bimr]

A 20 kg dog will waste about 1 liter per day.

http://www.hilarywatson.com/hydration.pdf

 

[Apakrat]

Ya might wanna check with the local city/county health/code enforcement people.

At 74th year working on IR-One2 PhD from UHK - - -

 

[RHTPE]

msquared48: Having been a PZC member in CT for 15 years or so, I can say that ptmoss would be correct about conditioning approval based upon a specific size or breed. From a PZC perspective, we look beyond the current applicant to any subsequent owner who wants to continue with a similar use. While the applicant may be willing to agree to conditions of approval, the next property owner may not (of course, he/she would have to reapply for a kennel permit). Further, that next owner may come before a PZC with completely new members and attitudes.

Just another thought.

Ralph
Structures Consulting
Northeast USA

 

[equimo]

It is understanding that a residential septic system is for human's waste water. This case is for commercial application and shall be treated as is. Simple as you want go to Nadayic and for design manual click

http://consolidatedtreatment.com/manuals/Nayadic_Design_Manual.pdf

Nevertheless, Flows and other factors to consider is your criteria of selection as designer. You could take one of the flows recommended above for others. Just keep in mind that dogs are dogs as humans are humans as well. What about if the owner decided to rise shepherds? So take an average flow in consideration!!